Mk7 Stop/Start System - Issues and Questions

[Kesh]

Mk7 Stop/Start System - Issues and Questions

So I was thinking recently about the use of stop start in my mk7 or indeed any car. While it's obvious that it will save quite a bit of fuel during long stops, there's no arguing that those short bursts of stops put a lot of strain on both the starter and the battery. One would think that the battery and starter would need to be replaced sooner because of the extra wear. My question is, would you be better off just turning start stop off in favour of using more fuel but saving the battery and motor?

[team_v]

The battery required for the stop start technology is an EFB (Enhanced flooded battery) and is significantly more expensive than the standard AGM battery.
Unless you are saving $50 in fuel each year due to stop start it wont be worth it.

[Midfielder]

Took Golf into dealership yesterday armed with video - this was reviewed by fireman who downloaded onto his computer. This really helped the interaction and he said he didn't need to drive the car. Says he emailed Sydney office HQ and they immediately told him to do a 'software update' and he was hopeful this would fix it. Prior to that he had all sorts of theories as to what the problem might be. I've since driven car perhaps 2 hrs in total without a problem but its early days. I'll keep u up to date

[lambertia]

Yes absolutely it will save money.

It is true that cars with stop/start have more expensive batteries. I think AGM if the car has blue motion as this includes charging during brake recovery. If for whatever reason you need to replace the battery in your car you're supposed to put the same battery type in. So in terms of start/stop the cost of the battery is not relevant. You're stuck with it because you bought the car.

I think that the only way stop/start could cause you to not save money is if in the life of the ownership of your car it causes you to replace the battery more often that you otherwise would. For example twice in five years rather than one. I'm no expert but I assume that because the battery is designed for stop/start that this is unlikely to be the case.

As covered elsewhere the starter/engine/battery is designed for all of this. Don't use it because you just don't like it but don't turn it off because you think it won't save money.

[vdubmotorworx]

The engine needs to be OFF for 8 seconds or more between stop starts to be fuel saving...VDUB....

[tigger73]

The problem that I see with the technology is that it is all designed for reduced fuel consumption on some standardised test which I think involves standing stationary for 4 minutes. So there is an instant win on the published fuel economy figures for the car when you implement stop/start.

Now the real question is does this have any long-term effects on the life of the parts. I guess we're really only going to find out the answer to that one in 3-5 years.

The early adopters of the technology are going to be the "test bunnies" for the rest of us. You would have thought the vehicle manufacturers would have done cycle testing on all the components to ensure they can perform 100,000 starts without failing (or whatever the magic number is). However we're probably only going to find out if there is an issue when this first round of cars start coming out of warranty.

On the flip side Toyota has been cycling their engines for close to 10 years in the Prius so it's not like it's new technology.


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[Saintza]

I only ever use stop/start when I stop at lights that I know and I know I'm going to be waiting half a minute or more, otherwise I don't bother due to concerns about extra wear on the starter etc. I think it's a good balance. I'm a manual driver btw, so it's probably a bit easier to stop/start as well.

[DV52]

Now the real question is does this have any long-term effects on the life of the parts. I guess we're really only going to find out the answer that one in 3-5 years.

Kesh's original question was about the fiscal benefits (if any) of blue motion and it's a good question. I reckon that a reasonable approach in answering this question is to ask why blue motion was put in the car in the first place. I may be wrong, but from what I have read about start-stop systems in general, I believe that the impetus for this facility was to meet Europe's environment regulations. This means I think that SS was never intended to "save money in the long run". Rather, the goal of stop start is to provide a low-cost solution for VW shareholders to comply with a particular Law which has the aim of benefiting the environment. Looked-at from this perspective, the question of whether SS saves money for the car owner (if this happens at all) was perhaps, a peripheral concern for the car's designers.

But IMO, an even more important issue than the one raised above is - having bought a car with SS installed, what's the best way to use bluemotion? For me, there can be only one correct answer; turn it off! Rather than thinking about the life of the constituent components of SS, a more pressing concern (IMO) is the how does SS affect the longevity of the car's occupants? I don't mind admitting that SS scares the sh*t out of me! Anyone who has experience the dread of having the car hesitate when completing a RH turn against oncoming traffic will know exactly what I mean. My suggestion (for what it's worth) is to do the VCDS tweak that you will find on VWW to permanently disable blue motion. Without wanting to be overly melodramatic, the worst outcome for any one who owns a car with SS is that their last regret is "I should have turned off SS"!

[tigger73]

Kesh's original question was about the fiscal benefits (if any) of blue motion and it's a good question. I reckon that a reasonable approach in answering this question is to ask why blue motion was put in the car in the first place. I may be wrong, but from what I have read about start-stop systems in general, I believe that the impetus for this facility was to meet Europe's environment regulations. This means I think that SS was never intended to "save money in the long run". Rather, the goal of stop start is to provide a low-cost solution for VW shareholders to comply with a particular Law which has the aim of benefiting the environment. Looked-at from this perspective, the question of whether SS saves money for the car owner (if this happens at all) was perhaps, a peripheral concern for the car's designers.

But IMO, an even more important issue than the one raised above is - having bought a car with SS installed, what's the best way to use bluemotion? For me, there can be only one correct answer; turn it off! Rather than thinking about the life of the constituent components of SS, a more pressing concern (IMO) is the how does SS affect the longevity of the car's occupants? I don't mind admitting that SS scares the sh*t out of me! Anyone who has experience the dread of having the car hesitate when completing a RH turn against oncoming traffic will know exactly what I mean. My suggestion (for what it's worth) is to do the VCDS tweak that you will find on VWW to permanently disable blue motion. Without wanting to be overly melodramatic, the worst outcome for any one who owns a car with SS is that their last regret is "I should have turned off SS"!

Agree it only has to cut out once at the "wrong" time/place to be a major safety issue.

You'll have to update your sig then:

Golf MkVII 103TSI (Highline) my13 (SS disabled)

[DV52]

Agree it only has to cut out once at the "wrong" time/place to be a major safety issue.

You'll have to update your sig then:

Golf MkVII 103TSI (Highline) my13 (SS disabled)

Tiger73; I want to remain a closet SS turner-off-er! Let's keep SS status on my car a secret- just between me and you!

[donweather]

Got driven home last night in a Prius taxi that had done 420,000km!!! All with stop start technology.

[BCK]

I know of no modern cars in my friends fleet with SS to have been at all mechanically effected by having it turned on.

Its been a long standing practice in Europe to turn off your motor in traffic jams or temporary stopped traffic situations, as well as it being illegal to keep your car idling in the aforementioned situations in some countries of Europe.

There are hybrids and various other cars with SS over the last 10+ years still going strong today with no complaint, I'm leaving mine turned on.

Already i I have noticed that it does indeed save me fuel, and increases my driving range, therefore saving money and also improving convenience of longer times between refills!

Also so I would hope that you wouldn't introduce a technology that can be harmful to longtime use of the car, that also can't be forced off by the user.

[buzuki]

they are fitted with heavier duty starter motors, im not sure about the flywheel/ring gear though

[2browndogs]

This is not really an issue if you have a manual. I can see how it could be an issue with DSG....

[Flipper]

Fifth Gear did a real world test using stop start and found a 10% fuel consumption improvement so work that out over a few years and the savings are pretty big.