Mk7 Golf R Discussion Thread

[i286]

Mikey1 that is what I get in my Tsi Highline. It will take almost 10 km for oil temp to reach 50 degrees and to show on the MFD. Freeway I use is flat and straight and doing 110 kmh in 7th gear engine sits on 2100-2200 rpm.
I read somewhere, years ago, when I was about to do my first Atf change, to get the Atf to operating temp it takes about 16 km of driving.
Apparently mk7 has quite complex cooling system in order to achieve emissions target and reduced fuel consumption as well as occupants comfort. In the first few minutes coolant circulates only through the head and the heather core. That could explain why we see temperature gauge showing normal operating temp quite quickly. I will try to find that info if I can.
Don't think that ambient temperature had significant influence in my findings. Will try to get accurate numbers for winter and summer period.

[i286]

A few lines about cooling in this article, EA 211 engine, 1.4 litre Tsi

VW Golf Mk7 (2013): the inside story | Secret New Cars | Car Magazine Online


In this one is about EA 888, 2.0 litre GTI engine.

Volkswagen Golf GTI review - design | Autocar


In this one is newly developed EA288, 1.6 litre TDI. Not sure if anything from this one found its way into above two.

VW Golf Mk7: VW Golf Mk7 Bluemotion fuel economy



This is from Wikipedia


Regarding thermal management, the EA211 petrol engine is equipped with a modern dual-circuit cooling system. That means that a high temperature circuit with a mechanically driven cooling pump cools the basic engine, while a low temperature circuit flows through the intercooler and the turbo-charger casing. The cylinder-head circuit heats the cabin's interior. The exhaust manifold is integrated into the cylinder head, enabling the engine to warm up more quickly, in turn making heat available quickly for the passenger cabin. At high loads, the exhaust is cooled by the coolant, lowering fuel consumption.


From Car and Driver article

The fuel-economy improvement comes from a combination of many innovations. For one, the exhaust manifold is integrated into the head. This setup reduces the distance exhaust gases have to travel before entering the turbocharger, helping fire the catalyst faster—it’s located right next to the turbo, adjacent to the cylinder head. The headifold (we just made that up, let’s see if it sticks) features its own cooling circuit. Valves in the coolant paths control this circuit’s flow. By isolating and collecting the heat in the head, this engine comes up to temperature quicker, reducing the fuel-rich environment of a cold engine and heating the cabin quicker. Conversely, when the engine is up to temp, this circuit can cool the exhaust gas about 212 degrees Fahrenheit under full load, which is a boon for emissions.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/we-sample-the-ea211-volkswagen%E2%80%99s-next-global-four-cylinder-engine-series/

[hainsey]

Drove the car yesterday or Ing and monitored the oil temp and took about 8 minutes to get to 105 degrees, ambient temp was 21.5 degrees

Did the same thing this morning and the ambient temp was 16 degrees an no difference in time and distance, as long as you have full oil pressure the amount of heat in the oil is not so important, just as it isn't stone cold, there isn't a way you can really "control" the oil temp or get it hotter quicker, that's why they choose the oil they do so it promotes the pressure that engine needs and won't burn out at certain heats that the engine oil will run at, so I don't agree that the temp of the oil is critical to be within a10-15 degree range as it is supposed to do the same job at 50 degrees as it would at 150degrees, just the way it is designed and manufacturered

[Cantgiveyouthat]

It's a long time since I did basic Physics at High School.

The differing Specific Heat Capacities of Water and Oil will explain the different times for them to reach operating temperature, I would imagine. I'm not going to google, but someone else might have sufficient interest.

Parts of the water side of the cooling system must be up to operating temperature after 3 minutes. That is not to say that the engine as a whole is at operating temperature. I would be conservative and view the oil temperature as a more accurate indicator of engine operating temperature.

I think Hainsy is incorrect and at odds with everything I have read previously. But, I'm interested to see facts, again if anyone can be bothered and I'm happy to be proved wrong

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Why buy into the APR hype. There are tuning boxes available that put out the same power benefits without altering the code or red flagging. Under $1k landed.

[team_v]

Why buy into the APR hype. There are tuning boxes available that put out the same power benefits without altering the code or red flagging. Under $1k landed.

The difference is with the tuning box you have a crude method of tricking the engine into running rich.
Also, if anything goes wrong good luck getting some helpful feedback from a tuning box company.

Sure APR are at the pricey end of the spectrum but there are cheper alternatives such as custom code, viezu, spectune etc and they all have local support.

[hainsey]

It's a long time since I did basic Physics at High School.

The differing Specific Heat Capacities of Water and Oil will explain the different times for them to reach operating temperature, I would imagine. I'm not going to google, but someone else might have sufficient interest.

Parts of the water side of the cooling system must be up to operating temperature after 3 minutes. That is not to say that the engine as a whole is at operating temperature. I would be conservative and view the oil temperature as a more accurate indicator of engine operating temperature.

I think Hainsy is incorrect and at odds with everything I have read previously. But, I'm interested to see facts, again if anyone can be bothered and I'm happy to be proved wrong

You are right the viscosity of the oil is chosen per engine application and with the viscosity comes different properties, operating pressure, warm up time and operating temp.

As for coolant, each brand and type has a different amount of ethylene glycol in it which changes it boiling point and corrosion inhibitor rating, along with how much pressure it can be put under to raise its boiling point before it starts to deteriorate, again the mix of water and glycol is chosen per engine application and operating temp needed

Each engine will heat up in different times and at different rates from model to model but two of the same engines should be almost exactly the same time and rate.

And you have to remember that engine operating temperature is solely dependant on the coolant taking away the heat, oil has only minor cooling properties as the water will then take the heat out of the oil.
Oil will operate at up to 800degrees in the golf r engine and as soon as the piston oil skirt squirters do lubricate the sidewall of the cylinder (hottest part) the water jacket in the block will then disperse the latent heat in the block and oil
As soon as the oil hits the 800degree surface it will burn/vaporise, that is why most engines will have oil consumption between services
But this being said operating temp of oil for any chosen engine will have to be roughly a little higher than the coolant temp because you don't want to boil coolant through the block, coz you're going to have a bad time

I never said there wasn't a peak operating temp but there is a range it's not supposed to be stone cold or red hot as each different oil weight and brand will have diff specs and properties. And this can vary immensely.

But what would I know I'm not qualified or anything -.-

[Cantgiveyouthat]

I don't have the technical knowledge to label MTM, DTUK and ABT tuning boxes crude. I don't know if there is a difference between the three (although there is a significant cost difference). I have not seen or heard of any issues here or in the UK with any of these companies and significantly not with the DTUK box.

I have one on order, so time will tell.

It's a bit hard to have an opinion on APR except with regard to price, since their flash has been 2 weeks away since Christmas.

[Cantgiveyouthat]

I'm sorry Hainsy, perhaps I was confusing above.

SHC is a measure of how much energy you need to put into or out of an object (in this case a fluid) to get a change in temp of 1degree. Viscosity is effected by heat. In my mind there will be a very direct correlation between the heat of the oil and it's ability to perform at optimum. Since I don't know the tech I would use oil as a better indicator of engine temperature.

If you look in old fast cars I am pretty sure they had oil temp and pressure gauges.

Glycol is added to coolant chiefly as an antifreeze. I have not read of its use to modify boiling points or pressure (although it certainly will affect the coolant characteristics), can you refer some material in this regard? Glycol is not corrosive, rather than added as a corrosion inhibitor is my understanding. I remember a movement in the 70/80's to the use of glycol in place of cheap acid antifreeze types that were prevalent at the time.

I'm not qualified for this.

[hainsey]

Yes the oil will change viscosity the hotter it gets, thus why people in different climates use diff oils, not because the oil itself will run cooler but the cooling efficiency of the coolant taking the latent heat out of the oil and then through radiator is much more efficient in cooler climates, which does make oil run cooler
This is why I am saying that you cannot put a figure on optimum oil temp because there are too many factors that relates to this

I must have typed it wrong above, glycol will be used as an antifreeze agent AND to promote a higher boiling point AND better heat transfer
Inhibitors are also added but this differed from manufacturer and application.

the use of ethylene glycol not only depresses the freezing point, but also elevates the boiling point such that the operating range for the heat transfer fluid is broadened on both ends of the temperature scale. The increase in boiling temperature is due to pure ethylene glycol having a much higher boiling point and lower vapor pressure than pure water; there is no chemical stabilization against boiling of the liquid phase at intermediate compositions, as there is against freezing. - from text book.

Yes, older cars have pressure gauges because if you have a leak and no oil = no oil pressure or a blockage will promote too high a pressure and will not lubricate properly.

And a lot of the time the oil temp gauge is directly related to how efficient the coolant is at cooling the oil, without coolant your oil will burn and stick to the cylinder and seize your engine

[nat225]

I dont see enough Golf R specific discussions in the last few posts.... the engine must be super special in the VAG cars family to warrant the above posts in this Golf R specific thread..

[GLF-18T]

Hey guys!

Massively informative thread with so many topics covered. Great stuff!

I am hopefully going to be in the market for a new R pretty soon and want to know what you all seem to think is a good deal for an R with DSG and leather?

Who's gotten the best deal for such a car and where from? I'm in Sydney and any advice is appreciated!

Thanks

[hainsey]

Hey mate, can't go wrong with the car.

I got mine with dsg, leather and drive assist package with 5 year warranty and wheel And tyre package for 57500 drive away

If you look in the post for people who have ordered and received mk7 golf there will be more posts there about prices and insurance etc

[Mikey1]

I got mine with dsg, leather and drive assist package with 5 year warranty and wheel And tyre package for 57500 drive away

Wasn't this a demo, and an amazing price even so? This will distort any realistic outcomes, which are dependent on whether a corporate discount is applicable, any existing relationship with dealer exists and varying state ORC's.

[hainsey]

Yeah mate was a demo had a little over 1000 kms on it but ended up being 10k cheaper with all options and warranty on it. If you go on carsales there are heaps of demos with less than 500kms on them that are heavily discounted and should be able to get the extra warranty for free