VW Golf R OEM Versus Aftermarket Brakes - rotors and pads, braided lines

[DV52]

Maybe a different device such as OBDEleven or VAG-COM/VCDS may be better ?

Michael: Hello again - so the exercise with your brakes continues!!

I'm not familiar with Carista - but my strong hunch is that your MY24 vehicle almost certainly has the infamous "Schutz Fahrzeug Diagnose" (SFD). If you haven't heard the term - it's the latest form of protection protocol that VAG started to implement on their fleet of vehicles in 2020. In fact, SFD has now evolved into the next-generation version protection and its in most post-2023 built VAG vehicles - it's called SFD2.

I'm not sure which version protection your Cupra has, but it almost certainly has a form of SFD.

So, SFD was first implemented when VAG commenced "interconnecting" their cars with remote facilities - like remote software upgrades and remote purchasing of options that are installed via OTA (over-the-air) download-technology. SFD is meant to stop others hacking these newer vehicles - but it goes much further IMO! Users that want to unlock SFD modules for coding purposes on these vehicles must first obtain a special license from VAG called a "Token"- which a one-use-only/time-limited authority to access modules.

Release of these Tokens by VAG is tightly controlled and it's entirely dependent on satisfying VAG's stringent requirements! For example, for enthusiast-market users of third party diagnostic devices (like you and me) - SFD access means that the identity of users and details of the coding changes must be stored and made available to VAG if needed.

This requirement greatly changes the way that third-party diagnostic devices operate because the manufacturer must enter into a contractual arrangement with VAG directly and it must establish a database of user identity/history records that is acceptably to VAG.

As for the specific question in your quote above:

1. OBDeleven was the first non ODiS manufacturer to provide a fully integrated SFD solution
2. Despite promising an integrated SFD solution to enthusiast VCDS users for the past 5 years- Ross-Tech still does NOT support these cars for the enthusiast market. Professional VCDS users must have a separate GEKO account with VAG to generate the Token - then they can input the Token into VCDS, but this solution is not practical for the enthusiast market-sector
3. Again, I know nothing about Carista - but from my very quick read of their material, it seems that users must have a "premium account" (whatever this means??) which requires a subscription to unlock SFD and they need a different "EVO adapter". I suggest that you read THIS

AFAIK, no third-party manufacturer has been able to unlock SFD2 protocols and my understanding is that even the official VAG tool ODIS has problems successfully unlocking the very latest protection protocols!

Don

PS: the term "EVO" in my Carista explanation (point 3.) above refers to VAG's "evo-chassis" - this is the platform on which cars with SFD are built.

[petemac110]

Michael, you could do a lot worse than downloading the carscanner pro app onto your phone and seeing if it will work for you.

I use this for all of my coding and service requirements, and I noted that the most recent update had a new section titled 'sfd' which may or may not be helpful in your application.

[Michael_B]

Yes, the brake saga continues, but hopefully will be resolved soon .....

Cheers DV52, I found your posts on the OBDeleven forum (thought I recognised the user name from somewhere) and that enlightened me to the murky world of SFD/SFD2 ( Question on apps | OBDeleven ).

So, for me, the next step is to contact OBDEleven (Aus) and make sure that I can get to the EPB Service (and see what Carista's response is) and have a go at getting it sorted. I'll also read the link you posted.

@petemac110 - thanks, I'll look into that as well.

As much as I like tinkering, this has put me off it for the moment .....

[Lucas_R]

Did the conversion before I new about Carista.

Sorry - what I meant (knowing you had already done the brake conversion a few months ago) was I am suprised that while you have been waiting for your new parts to arrive to arrive for the rear brakes, that you had not connected the Carista device to your car to make sure that it works etc and that it could communicate with your car.

So from what I understand, you have the Carista EVO adapter (its black, the older normal one is white) and you should have a Carista subscription because without the subscription you cant do anything. If you have both the Evo adapter and the subscription and still cannot connect to the car, then it must be because of how new the car is and the 'SFD' as mentioned above.

Reading this will hopefully help: Carista - what is SFD

[gerhard]

For a lot of motorised handbrake systems it's pretty easy to do the rear brakes without a scan tool. Check youtube, there are videos. Basically you take the motor off, apply 12v to the pins in the connector and the motor will wind back (thereare usually two wires, + on one side = apply brake, polarity reversed = let off brake.) Replace your brakes, refit the motor, apply the 12v to set the motor, plug the connector back in.

I don't know for sure if SFD/SFD2 would know this is the way you have done it, but it would be highly unlikely I think..

[Michael_B]

Sorry - what I meant (knowing you had already done the brake conversion a few months ago) was I am suprised that while you have been waiting for your new parts to arrive to arrive for the rear brakes, that you had not connected the Carista device to your car to make sure that it works etc and that it could communicate with your car.

....

I guess I didn't check as I didn't think that it wouldn't do it, as all the Carista vids (and other 3rd party mobs) never mentioned it.

Learned that lesson !

For a lot of motorised handbrake systems it's pretty easy to do the rear brakes without a scan tool. Check youtube, there are videos. Basically you take the motor off, apply 12v to the pins in the connector and the motor will wind back (thereare usually two wires, + on one side = apply brake, polarity reversed = let off brake.) Replace your brakes, refit the motor, apply the 12v to set the motor, plug the connector back in.

I don't know for sure if SFD/SFD2 would know this is the way you have done it, but it would be highly unlikely I think..

Cheers Gerhard. Given what I have learned over the last few weeks since I charged ahead without the required knowledge, I'm double/triple & quadruple checking everything. I've found that youtube videos can be helpful, but can also be so wrong too.

My initial thought is to release the handbrake (as you would for the prep) but then just unplug the connector, do the work, and then plug in again when done.

One of the issues when I did the initial brake swap, is I wasn't aware that the system set itself after a time delay. So when removing the 1st caliper, all was good until partway through the swap, the EPB activated.

So this created it's own fault code when the work was done, as it thought one side was set when it wasn't, hence looking to the OBD11 option to make it think I'm doing a service so that code can be reset properly.

Will have a search for the video that shows the process you mentioned, but then still gotta get a 12V source to the back wheels !

Cheers

[Lucas_R]

If you do this method - then perhaps an idea is to place a piece of wood (of a similar thickness of the disk rotor) in the caliper to replicate the disk, so that if the EPB engages, it wont spin all the way out and drop the piston on the ground

[Michael_B]

If you do this method - then perhaps an idea is to place a piece of wood (of a similar thickness of the disk rotor) in the caliper to replicate the disk, so that if the EPB engages, it wont spin all the way out and drop the piston on the ground

Had that thought too

[gerhard]

If you do this method - then perhaps an idea is to place a piece of wood (of a similar thickness of the disk rotor) in the caliper to replicate the disk, so that if the EPB engages, it wont spin all the way out and drop the piston on the ground

Had that thought too

EPB won't spin it all the way out because you have the connector unplugged. But applying the 12v external source could certainly do that.

Maybe disconnect the battery of the car too, so none of the vehicle systems can know what's going on or do anything. Full anaesthetic

[Michael_B]

So, Carista have confirmed they don't have the EPB Service at this stage.


OBDeleven Australia have responded with a vague answer, but provided this link OBDeleven supported vehicles | OBDeleven for me to check.


So selected my vehicle (Leon 2020+ Cupra Leon Hatchback) and after scrolling through a few pages, finally found this Brake pads replacement, Seat Cupra Leon 2020 Brake pads replacement - EPB - Electronic Parking Brake and it's 10 Credits (if you don't get the Pro version). Note, this was also pointed out by cairus earlier, but in German.


So, in order to do it using the EPB Service process (rather than a bodge way of doing it), I need to ditch the Carista and get the OBDeleven Pro at A$219 (note the Aus site doesn't sell the base unit that you have to buy credits with).


Again, thanks for everyones help so far !

\It's a long weekend coming up, so an ideal time to get stuck into it !

[Guest001]

Ask on here if anyone near you can do it for a slab Lot cheaper than buying one

[Michael_B]

Ask on here if anyone near you can do it for a slab Lot cheaper than buying one

It seems that there are ways around what I need to do via EPB Service, there are ways around it. Currently, the Carista doesn't do it, the OBDeleven isn't worth the cost to just get the EPB Service, and certainly not confident enough to do any long coding so will just stick with what I have and work around it.

Have a long weekend coming up so will do the item swaps I need to do and then go from there.

Cheers

[Guest001]

Get a spare 12v battery 2 bits of wire Hook them to the plug to the motor One way will wind it back reverse them and it will wind them in. Dont need any tech crap

[Michael_B]

Get a spare 12v battery 2 bits of wire Hook them to the plug to the motor One way will wind it back reverse them and it will wind them in. Dont need any tech crap

It's not an issue of winding it back.

During the initial brake swap, is I wasn't aware that the system set itself after a time delay. So when removing the 1st caliper, all was good until partway through the swap, the EPB activated.

So this created it's own fault code when the work was done, as it thought one side was set when it wasn't, hence looking to the OBD11 option to make it think I'm doing a service so that code can be reset properly.

I think once all said and done, I'll see what codes can be reset (hopefully 99% of them) and then it's seeing what's left and then either reaching out to the board for more advice/help or visit the dealer.

Cheers and stay tuned !