Its Official... I Inserted MY 73MM BIG BLACK WANGER

[amunra]

I did it guys.. Had to pull my bumper off to take off both lights / change headlight bulbs .... so thought it would be the right time to finally squeeze my 73MM Black WANGER IC into my VAG.

It was an epic day full of swearing, fiddling around, trimming plastic and dirty hands.. but it was really exciting


For anyone who is interested or sceptical.. it was actually alot easier than the online ebay ic DIY guides make it out (was alot like the wagner instruction it was sent with)... and the IC was really not that poorly made at all in terms of having to file anything on the unit or make any adjustments or poorly specced out brackets or anything...... really none.. pretty decently made unit that fit pretty nicely


As per the instruction guide... I was required to trim most of the bottom part off the bottom clips on the radiator (battery hand saw) to fit the bottom IC metal brackets underneath the radiator clips to enable to make good contact with the radiator.. otherwise the ic was getting blocked up on the clips and not making properly contact...

obviously with the clips cut off and nothing to click in place... it didnt hold perfectly like a clip but it had the room to enter the right position when tightened back together and had to check regularly that it was able to go flush in that area..... .. took a few times trying to fit it and feeling around what part of the clip was blocking but wasnt too hard and finally trimmed enough for it to have clearance..

gotta say tho... it was a bit of a bitch to put all back together ( IC. PLASTIC TRAY , CONDENSER) and fit it nicely ... fortunately wasnt too time consuming but it was alot of fiddling and a fair bit of patience... .

one thing that made that alot easier.... i had to open up the top bracket hooks on the IC with a flat head for the condensor plate to slide in.... was maybe 1mm too narrow and giving me a hard time.. ... it opened fairly nicely and easily with it being quite a thick metal hook.. not flimsy at all.. .. and made enough room for the condenser metal plates to slide in... required some downward tapping / light banging with some plyers and managed to get all the plates in nicely and evenly ... condensor looked like it was sittng fairly even and flush.

i did trim a slither (2mm up and 5cm across) off the top horiztontal running edge of the plastic tray (between the IC and the condensor) so the condensor fits underneath the tray properly and some other small plastic bits to make it all snug... but nothing too outrageous.. literally 1 - 2mm shaving to fit it underneath where it was getting stuck on the tray.

then

Once i bolted everything back up it all sat very nicely and tightly... and DID NOT require any makeshift brackets or metal plates... screws.. or anything... like many online guides say.. just the trimming of the plastic radiator clips and some plastic on the tray and bit of patience and fiddling till it looked right and even... then bolted back up and was looking and sitting very nicely.

wont be driving it anytime soon so cant give any feedback on performance but pretty happy with the savings on the WANGER.. with the money i saved i picked up an impact wrench and some bits to put it together easier (made alot easier).... saved myself a cool $2000+ in equipment and install so happy with that.

[amunra]

on closer inspection of the wagner installation i completely winged it... and doesnt say in the install to cut the bottom radiator clips off .. it seemed like they were in the way to me so i did that and it all worked out well.

. it recommends you cut something else off to fit but didnt find that was a problem.. and to modify some other stuff... guess you gotta do some mods for the big STAGE 3 WANGER

[Call me Al]

I agree Originally Posted by amunra posted: Without links to what you actually bought, and photos showing the product and fitment - how is this thread going to be of any real help to anyone?

I have no axe to grind with you but how hard is it to post photos of your project if you wish to help others DIYs?

[amunra]

I have no axe to grind with you but how hard is it to post photos of your project if you wish to help others DIYs?

thats cool, didnt feel like it needed photos.. theres about 10 - 15 videos online of installing intercoolers (mainly from the front, 1 or 2 from behind / removing the radiator)..... i did mine from the front method.. without removing the radiator or fans.... and to be fair i was actually too busy getting the job done and back together aswell as removing headlights, changing out some bulbs before .. had to put em all back in after and jumpstart my car to test the light bulbs e.t.c was sort of over it by the end if you could forgive me.. hands were basically covered in dirt and grime most of the time to be fiddling with my phone or taking pretty pictures.

but in saying that I do have a few photos before i really got stuck into it... that i havent uploaded.

not sure if they will get me a pass or lift my approval rating with inspector general lucas_GTI... but i can upload them if get around to it and you guys let me know ok.


and I really do appreciate it wasnt as beautiful or cute as lucas_GTI's do888 thread... i wont deny it.... but atleast i do know the specs of my IC and why i bought it and how it functions .. just a little bit


also, im sure to those guys who were wondering how hard these things actually are to install... they are not as hard as alot of the online threads make it out (custom backing plates, screws, fitment & rubbing issues ? e.t.c e.t.c)..

apart from all the tools that are needed for disassembly of the front end... i think i only needed my battery hand saw as extra for the plastic radiator clips (mentioned in the instruction).. and after going over the re-assembly i might need 1 small screw to go into the existing condensor plate hole to hold it firmly in place.. otherwise its pretty good as it is but i will do that to be sure it doesnt move at all.


Personally, I think its a little bit nicer for a DYI'r not to get bombarded with all these random photos (which arent necessary if you've already seen the videos and get started yourself .. which everyone is going to anyway).. it makes it look daunting... i definately know i thought i was in for a much tougher time as a DIYr from the online threads going around.. it was actually alot easier and to be honest most of them sounded like a lot of Garage-Overengineering, bitching a moaning from the guys installing them... needing 2 people to do it e.t.c e.t.c... i did it all myself basically on 1 leg and limited energy / time in the day.

If i didnt have a sprained back and swollen foot i would have rated it as.. very easy aslong as you have the tools.

So to recap..

I followed a few of the front install videos (they all show u the same things) to get it all undone... did all that..... removed my OEM INTERCOOLER (actually had to crack the top clips to release it).... after trying to slide the WANGER in the same way (had no issues getting the top clips in and out of the WANGER, which was very nice as i had to place and remove it to trim the radiator clips)

.. after trimming enough of the bottom radiator clip/tabs until it had enough clearance to fit in .. and left as much of the tab as i could.. . it didnt really clip/click in properly but this gave the clearance to fit the IC bracket underneath what was left of the tab and fit parallel into its right position in the front cooling sandwich without it being angled or misalligned. .. and then basically put it back together in reverse the best i could and it was done.. needed a little bit trimmed off around the plastic tray thing that goes around the IC and Condesnor.. to fit the condensor back in flush but that might be a situational thing and someone might not end up needing to do that.. i did just to be sure its sitting properly underneath the tray instead of over it... please keep in mind the condensor will be 20mm further away from where it was so thats why i had some trouble fitting it back underneath where it was without the trimming..

anyone who has undertaken this or will do it , will understand what im talking about.


As for a link to purchase.. its a 73mm comp cooler on ebay look it up. pretty sure i've covered that already...

the inlet / outlet is 73mm and the thickness of the core is 55mm just to save anyone confusion.. the stock core is 37mm so its a decent improvement in size but didnt give me the fitment issues like some other people online have been claiming with their ebay ICs.. maybe they got some thicker ebay unit / bar plate or something i am not sure as there are 5 - 6 different ebay units right now.. and probably more specs over the years.

from what ive seen the do888 is even thicker so that might prove trickier to install than my WANGER r.e the condensor fitting back underneath the plastic frame.

as always, happy to help anyone with actual questions

[Manaz]

I agree, it would be great to see some pics - even from after the install if not during.

And dead keen to hear how it goes once you do get driving again. Did you manage to collect any data from before you fitted it so that you can provide before and after data to qualify just how much improvement the mod delivered?

[amunra]

I agree, it would be great to see some pics - even from after the install if not during.

And dead keen to hear how it goes once you do get driving again. Did you manage to collect any data from before you fitted it so that you can provide before and after data to qualify just how much improvement the mod delivered?

happy to take some more photos of it with it bolted in before i put the front bumper / plastics back on (sort of looks the same as before i dismantled it LOL).. ... and some photos of the inlet outlet area / sillcone / clamps... i think 73mm inlets are about the max you want to go on the MQB if you want to fit the appropriate 73MM sillicone tubing on without a problem..... if you go bigger than that you probably dont have enough clearance around that area to put such diameter tubing as a section of the radiator will get in the way (might need to cut more on the radiator but stopped paying attention when the tube fit).. .. it literally just cleared the radiator and slipped onto the inlet tank relatively easily (which means some force to get it onto cover the whole inlet)... with the clamp on it has about 1mm clearance to play around and adjust / press it onto the IC tank while tightening.... but really didnt have too much trouble getting it all the way on to the end and tightened up..... a little bit of sillicone grease would have helped it slide easier but i couldnt be bothered getting off the floor at that point.. the outlet tank area was no problem at all for the sillicone installation which was nice.

Unfortunately the car is off the road / unregistered because i needed to fix the waterpump, headlight bulb, oil pan gasket leak ( yet to do) for rego safety check and had the intercooler install already in mind while the bumper was off.. . dont really need the car so havent bothered... been feeling more energetic recently so thought id do it all this weekend.


- Unfortunately I didnt log any info, statistics / diagnostics of the OEM cooler temps or performance but im sure there will be plenty of people online with those exact same stats and also results from a WAGNER TUNING cooler specifically .. before and after.. and ebay coolers too (which perform as well as or very close to the big brands - 10 over ambient in most open driving scenarios... heat soak when standing still)

I am yet to find any user info or reviews on this particular sized 73MM comp cooler .. so i literally am the guinea pig for the world to see on this item.... all i know is it has the same spec / build dimensions as the WT 70mm cooler but the larger inlet /outlet... figuring it was some prototype / test cast from WT now being pumped out from china.. and is nearly similar weight (8.xkg WANGER vs 9.2kg WT *CLAIMED) may be the same after converted into pounds depending on equation used... or maybe i got them mixed up.. either way it was pretty close when i did the scales.

ill probably get a bluetooth / phone ap for the JB4 to measure cooling temps if it has that feature.... otherwise i might log it off the computer... need to look into whats best.


personally, im keen to see how the car drives with 73mm inlets and the bigger tank compared to the 60mm oem inlets.. there may be some turbo lag but hopefully not according to a few reports the is38 has enough power / pressure to fill the larger tank without lag and the larger inlet / outlet diameter helps alot with temps and pressure drop / flow.... Giving me optimum flow in the IC for up to approx 7OOish HP at the engine (probably will never reach that) where as the ICs with smaller inlet / outlets max out with optimum flow at around 500hp..

[amunra]

quick side by side comparison. the weld quality is the same throughout the unit with no funny looking **** going on, was really nicely made.

thickness of oem core - 36 - 37mm

thickness of WANGER - 55mm

[amunra]

pre installation
pre installation

Post installation.

if u guys notice the black plastic tray around the condensor / IC.. i had to trim the top running edge approx 1mm up and 5 - 6mm across to fit the condensor back underneath it.

I did leave out 1 install detail... I remember i had a little bit of trouble with the rubber grommet holes on the bottom of the plastic tray where the bottom IC stems fit into.. it was just really hard to get them to fit in there i think the holes on the rubber grommets werent big enough for the stems.

I pushed out the rubber grommet things and put the IC stems into newly wide open holes with no rubber reinforcmenet.. then i proceeded to jam the rubber grommets back into the hole from underneath the unit making sure its properly tucked in there between 1 side of the stem and plastic tray so it doesnt move around.. its not perfect but it works and saved me cutting the grommets into pieces to stuff in there.

[Manaz]

happy to take some more photos of it with it bolted in before i put the front bumper / plastics back on (sort of looks the same as before i dismantled it LOL).. ... and some photos of the inlet outlet area / sillcone / clamps... i think 73mm inlets are about the max you want to go on the MQB if you want to fit the appropriate 73MM sillicone tubing on without a problem..... if you go bigger than that you probably dont have enough clearance around that area to put such diameter tubing as a section of the radiator will get in the way (might need to cut more on the radiator but stopped paying attention when the tube fit).. .. it literally just cleared the radiator and slipped onto the inlet tank relatively easily (which means some force to get it onto cover the whole inlet)... with the clamp on it has about 1mm clearance to play around and adjust / press it onto the IC tank while tightening.... but really didnt have too much trouble getting it all the way on to the end and tightened up..... a little bit of sillicone grease would have helped it slide easier but i couldnt be bothered getting off the floor at that point.. the outlet tank area was no problem at all for the sillicone installation which was nice.

Good to see the photos, thanks!

Unfortunately the car is off the road / unregistered because i needed to fix the waterpump, headlight bulb, oil pan gasket leak ( yet to do) for rego safety check and had the intercooler install already in mind while the bumper was off.. . dont really need the car so havent bothered... been feeling more energetic recently so thought id do it all this weekend.

The joys of car ownership...

Unfortunately I didnt log any info, statistics / diagnostics of the OEM cooler temps or performance but im sure there will be plenty of people online with those exact same stats and also results from a WAGNER TUNING cooler specifically .. before and after.. and ebay coolers too (which perform as well as or very close to the big brands - 10 over ambient in most open driving scenarios... heat soak when standing still)

There's lots of data out there, but none for your particular car. What always interests me is not absolute values (those are often so easily gamed) but rather delta values. And those are never relevant unless they're done on the same car, but the same operator, in conditions as close as possible to each other (with variations noted).

I am yet to find any user info or reviews on this particular sized 73MM comp cooler .. so i literally am the guinea pig for the world to see on this item.... all i know is it has the same spec / build dimensions as the WT 70mm cooler but the larger inlet /outlet... figuring it was some prototype / test cast from WT now being pumped out from china.. and is nearly similar weight (8.xkg WANGER vs 9.2kg WT *CLAIMED) may be the same after converted into pounds depending on equation used... or maybe i got them mixed up.. either way it was pretty close when i did the scales.

ill probably get a bluetooth / phone ap for the JB4 to measure cooling temps if it has that feature.... otherwise i might log it off the computer... need to look into whats best.


personally, im keen to see how the car drives with 73mm inlets and the bigger tank compared to the 60mm oem inlets.. there may be some turbo lag but hopefully not according to a few reports the is38 has enough power / pressure to fill the larger tank without lag and the larger inlet / outlet diameter helps alot with temps and pressure drop / flow.... Giving me optimum flow in the IC for up to approx 7OOish HP at the engine (probably will never reach that) where as the ICs with smaller inlet / outlets max out with optimum flow at around 500hp..

Turbo lag is generally due to the size of the turbo and how much exhaust gas flow it takes to spool it up. I've seen lots of comments about longer intake paths and larger intercooler volumes meaning that boost takes longer to build because there's more volume, but honestly, at the pressures and airflow rates we're talking, the difference is absolutely minimal.

You should see better performance though, as there should, all other things being equal, be less flow resistance through the core and pipework, and so less pressure drop between the turbo and the intake manifold. More pressure equals more air equals the ability to burn more fuel equals more power.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54232[/ATTACH]quick side by side comparison. the weld quality is the same throughout the unit with no funny looking **** going on, was really nicely made.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54233[/ATTACH]thickness of oem core - 36 - 37mm

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54234[/ATTACH]thickness of WANGER - 55mm

As before, thanks for photos. If you include the "rubber flap" (designed to help keep airflow going through the core and the radiator), what's the thickness of the OEM setup? Looks pretty similar to the Wanger - meaning that the Wanger's about as big as you can get before having to compromise fitting. Nice.

[Manaz]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54235[/ATTACH]pre installation
[ATTACH=CONFIG]54236[/ATTACH]pre installation

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54237[/ATTACH]Post installation.

if u guys notice the black plastic tray around the condensor / IC.. i had to trim the top running edge approx 1mm up and 5 - 6mm across to fit the condensor back underneath it.

I did leave out 1 install detail... I remember i had a little bit of trouble with the rubber grommet holes on the bottom of the plastic tray where the bottom IC stems fit into.. it was just really hard to get them to fit in there i think the holes on the rubber grommets werent big enough for the stems.

I pushed out the rubber grommet things and put the IC stems into newly wide open holes with no rubber reinforcmenet.. then i proceeded to jam the rubber grommets back into the hole from underneath the unit making sure its properly tucked in there between 1 side of the stem and plastic tray so it doesnt move around.. its not perfect but it works and saved me cutting the grommets into pieces to stuff in there.

I do wonder just how much airflow that crash bar blocks. I realise it's illegal to run without it (and the bumper covers it anyway), but I just wonder how much better engine cooling (and intercooler performance) you'd get with that out of the way. Looks like you've managed to swallow a small bird anyway, so the flow can't be too bad!

[amunra]

Good to see the photos, thanks!



The joys of car ownership...




There's lots of data out there, but none for your particular car. What always interests me is not absolute values (those are often so easily gamed) but rather delta values. And those are never relevant unless they're done on the same car, but the same operator, in conditions as close as possible to each other (with variations noted).


Turbo lag is generally due to the size of the turbo and how much exhaust gas flow it takes to spool it up. I've seen lots of comments about longer intake paths and larger intercooler volumes meaning that boost takes longer to build because there's more volume, but honestly, at the pressures and airflow rates we're talking, the difference is absolutely minimal.

You should see better performance though, as there should, all other things being equal, be less flow resistance through the core and pipework, and so less pressure drop between the turbo and the intake manifold. More pressure equals more air equals the ability to burn more fuel equals more power.



As before, thanks for photos. If you include the "rubber flap" (designed to help keep airflow going through the core and the radiator), what's the thickness of the OEM setup? Looks pretty similar to the Wanger - meaning that the Wanger's about as big as you can get before having to compromise fitting. Nice.

No worries about photos.. theyre the ones i took during install. will take some more close ups today or tomorrow.. Just needed a break from that space.


- I wanted to take some readings of the OEM intercooler but the whole car de-rego safety check made it too much work to do .. really threw that idea out of the window.. going to definately take some readings of the new IC so we'll know how its going (plenty of nice quiet / empty 100kmph roads for testing and pulls), we could atleast compare that to official WAGNER TUNING readings and see how it goes.. I guess the closest we can get to comparing to OEM unit is if someone else with a GOLF R MK7 or maybe 206 PASSAT / SKODA / ARTEON ( jb4 tune atleast ) volunteers to take some readings of their OEM IC , 3rd gear pulls and temps while driving and standing still / mixed conditions... it should be atleast Similar (but obviously wont be like for like)


I had concerns for turbo lag before i bought this size unit (there are thinner core ones on ebay with smaller inlet / outlets)... so i did my research ..but i think thats more an issue with the GTI turbos (is20 and less) as they dont put out enough pressure to fill the larger tank fast enough. the large tank still does a good job cooling and performing for them still but takes a bit longer to fill as u said creating lag... is38 and up shouldnt have a problem.. should allow me to crank out consistant HP figures and hopefully less stress on the turbo (as its getting a bit older) by reducing the pressure drop.


also Yes, thought about the front end /crash bar restricting air flow... but what are u going to do


- As for my little feathered friend.. he wanted to get connected with god .. felt pretty bad too was giving it the boot on some B-roads (very , very B road) and 2 rainbow birds decided to literally fly out low and right infront of me ? (WITH NOONE ELSE AROUND) and 1 of them got caught... had to pull him out of my front end and say a prayer for him. Don't Forget kids.. Speed Kills.



- As for the thickness of it packed together... With the plastic trims / side air deflectors .. i pieced everything back together on the car as i found it... the OEM air deflectors on the sides (need a little slit / slice at 1 or 2 points to open / bend and slide them back on properly into their clip sockets ( 3 on each side running top to bottom) otherwise they were a little bit pushed forward by a few MM and didnt want to sit back in properly... They did after small adjustments no problem.


With the WANGER unit being approx 20mm thicker than the OEM unit... i found it all bolted back up pretty tightly and nicely (looked about OEM .. But only after the slits / adjustments on the plastics (deflectors and tray) to get the condensor to fit back in nicely like it was OEM.. again this was due to it getting caught on the top edge of the tray which needed trimming.


- I would say this is about as big a unit as you would want to install without starting to compromise / removing the OEM plastics.. if you go for a THICKER unit such as DO888 , IE or EBAY BAR PLATE (clone of 1 of the previous 2)..... with an even thicker core (not sure why you want any thicker to be honest when it isnt going to be 'doing' much more) .... then you might have some trouble with fitments and repackaging / plastics back to OEM... they might need removing all together.


I will have to get back to you on the exact thickness measured of the core package after bolted up.. but it is basically OEM thickness if you want to use the plastic package tray as a guide.. it is packed tight but everything sitting properly and flush and honestly pretty glad it didnt give me any real headaches apart from having to trim a bit of plastics which ended up fine.


Sorry for repeating things like trimming the plastics.. it was pretty crucial detail to making all this fit flush and back together like OEM

[Lucas_R]

I would say this is about as big a unit as you would want to install without starting to compromise / removing the OEM plastics.. if you go for a THICKER unit such as DO888, IE or EBAY BAR PLATE (clone of 1 of the previous 2)..... with an even thicker core (not sure why you want any thicker to be honest when it isnt going to be 'doing' much more) .... then you might have some trouble with fitments and repackaging / plastics back to OEM... they might need removing all together.

Its do88, not DO888 - so lets get the basics correct. The core is approx 58mm thick on the do88 and it fits just fine - no need to trim any plastics.

And no doubt this core was a standard thickness they had access to that just happened to fit on the Mk7. The thicker core compared to the factory intercooler has certainly pushed the radiator pack back onto the engine so its reduced the amount of space between the front of the engine and the radiator pack. Once you get your car back together you will notice the same.

[amunra]

Its do88, not DO888 - so lets get the basics correct. The core is approx 58mm thick on the do88 and it fits just fine - no need to trim any plastics.

And no doubt this core was a standard thickness they had access to that just happened to fit on the Mk7. The thicker core compared to the factory intercooler has certainly pushed the radiator pack back onto the engine so its reduced the amount of space between the front of the engine and the radiator pack. Once you get your car back together you will notice the same.

car is already packed together (clearly you seem to have missed that throughout the discussion in the thread) did not notice my radiator getting pushed towards the engine to be honest i noticed that was all the same as OEM placement.. dont see why having a thicker core intercooler would cause you to push the radiator towards the engine unless you have forcefully pushed it on yourself ( user error)... however in my case.. the condensor was sitting closer towards the front of the car/ crash bar (probably how it should be if uve fit your IC correctly) , thus needed to trim the plastic to fit the condensor back under the tray when thats in its OEM position too.

Clearly.. ur DO888 does not fit just fine as you have just stated it pushes the radiator closer towards the engine or you have had to push your radiator closer to the engine to make it fit in your case.. this is where the installation problems lay within alot of user reviews..they are pushing the radiator too far foward and some people have even cut hoses or damaged things over time by not leaving enough room between the radiator and engine (like there is with OEM)... things touching the radiator fans e.t.c e.t.c.

I have already stated all this in a previous post / reply to Manaz and just out of my own observations too..

So thanks for confirming said fitment issues with units like DO888 and IE, THICKER BAR PLATE MODELS

[Lucas_R]

LOL its just basic physics mate. The intercooler slots into a dedicated spot in the front clip, so if its thicker - the radiator will move closer to the engine, and the a/c condenser moves closer to the front bumper.

All you have done is made life harder for yourself to replace your Aliexpress spec waterpump as you have less room now. You should have done it while you had the front end off and made life easier for yourself - strange you didn't know this seeing you are so knowledable??

Why dont you come over one day so we can meet (gee id love that) and you can show me all the parts on my car that i've installed incorrectly as you seem to know everything.

Honestly I cant keep up with your dribble and your lack of punctuation or literacy skills if painful to read. My 7 year old kid can write better than this.

[amunra]

already did my waterpump champ. you remove the radiator fan for that and leave the radiator in place..

I wont have any issues changing my waterpump again with how ive reinstalled because it is all in the OEM placement

by the sounds of it your installation of the DO888 will cause you or your mechanic troubles when they have to do that.

the intercooler goes INFRONT of the radiator towards the bumpers.. not In place or partially in place of the radiator ??

it definately should not be pushing the radiator towards the engine.. that is user error and you may pay for that in time.. like others have

Maybe if you payed attention to installing your intercooler correctly instead of fiddling with pretty pictures maybe you would have done it properly.. and then coming on here and arguing with people who actually know what they are talking about