Is VW pennypinching?

[dave_r]

The missus' 6R Polo is the same. Only locks when car is locked.

[triode12]

Losing you say.... got any figures to back that up?
The fact is that on the prev/current Polo and the MKVI Golf the fuel flap is locked when the car is locked. Its a function of the central locking and I am quite sure a solenoid of some sort is required to accomplish the task.

So, really the only difference between the MKV and MK6 is that the MK5 had a separate, and redundant, button to activate the fuel flap. Probably some stupid idea to keep the Yanks happy.

What the removal of the button and wires from the door means is that another source of potential rattles or malfunction is removed. A good idea I think.

I vaguely remember reading something online like an article on Drive as a reason why the MKVI was being pushed forward. Costs of producing the MkV were high and something had to be done to bring the model back into profitibility. Other models were subdising the cost even though the Golf was their best selling model. Or something to that effect.

Good idea or not - it still means some form of cost cutting was done. Be that be a good or bad thing is up to you. IMO, any form of cost cutting is a form of penny pinching. I not saying that it is a bad thing. I rather have the switch - if you don't - that is fine. BTW I don't have rattles in both my MkVs coming from the door cards or fuel switch - one was made in SA (50,000kms) and the other in Wolfsburg.

[Maverick]

Octy is the same - linked to central lock.

The thought of leaving the key in the ignition & closing the door would freak me out. I'd be waiting for the car to self lock.

With the Mark V the release for the fuel flap is active for a few minutes after you remove the key (whilst the door controllers are still awake), in fact it might even be active until you perform a locking operation. So after you remove the key you still have plenty of time to press the release if you forget. The Mark V system allows you to lock the doors when you get out, fuel up and close the fuel flap. The only way to reopen it again is to unlock the car and press the release button.

Solenoid only operates for the unlocking stage when the button is pressed
Fuel flap opens for you
Car doors can be locked at any time
Surface of fuel door only needs to be touched once for closing

With the Mark VI they have removed the button and instead have a solenoid that unlocks when the car is unlocked and locks when the car is locked.

Solenoid operates continuously when car is unlocked
Fuel flap has to be manually opened
Car doors cannot be locked until the flap is closed
Fuel flap is closed and doors can be locked after this (not before).

Personally I prefer the Mark V setup as it works the way I want it to do, the solenoid has minimal operation time and I only have to touch the paint once to close it. The Mark VI is annoying how you can't close it with the solenoid locked (could have been better designed so you could close it with the doors locked).

[stickshift3000]

Good idea or not - it still means some form of cost cutting was done.

Where is the proof that it's cheaper?

Both models need wires run to the tank filler lid. Both need an electrical solenoid at some point in the system - of which the MKV is operated by a button, the MKVI is operated by the key.

Maybe it was done for convenience, not cost cutting? I wish I had the later system...

[Maverick]

Losing you say.... got any figures to back that up?

Volkswagen made it clear that they were losing money on every single Golf V because of it's complicated design that mean it was taking around 40 hours to build every car (was around 50 hours at the start and dropped to around 25 hours towards the end). Other similar sized cars were taking under 10 hours from other manufacturers.

The door design with it's unique reskinnable exterior took a lot of time to assemble and they wanted to simplify the build process. Hence they rushed the Mark VI forward about three years and this is why the Mark VII is due out next year and will be what the Mark VI was supposed to be. The Mark VI as it's been described is really a Mark V.V (5.5 or V 1/2).

You can find more information in various press releases and the media along with their annual reports.

What the removal of the button and wires from the door means is that another source of potential rattles or malfunction is removed. A good idea I think.

I would have thought that operating a solenoid every week or two would be more reliable then operating a solenoid for extended periods multiple times each day (with each unlock/lock cycle when you unlock the car and get in and again with a lock/unlock as the car drives off and a unlock/lock when you stop the car and lock it).

[Maverick]

Where is the proof that it's cheaper?

Why else do you think they did it? The Mark VI was about cost cutting and removing the switch, wiring and changing to a cheaper solenoid is clearly a cost cutting move, makes the car faster to build with less connections.

[pologti18t]

The door design with it's unique reskinnable exterior took a lot of time to assemble and they wanted to simplify the build process. Hence they rushed the Mark VI forward about three years and this is why the Mark VII is due out next year and will be what the Mark VI was supposed to be. The Mark VI as it's been described is really a Mark V.V (5.5 or V 1/2).

Is that really true? The MKV was in production for 5yrs. Hardly sounds like it was rushed to be replaced by the MK6. Sounds like a normal model cycle to me.

Are you saying that if the car was profitable to make they would have left it in production relatively unchanged for 8-9yrs?

[Maverick]

Is that really true? The MKV was in production for 5yrs. Hardly sounds like it was rushed to be replaced by the MK6. Sounds like a normal model cycle to me.

The Mark V ended production around August/September 2008 with the first Mark VI's leaving the production line in December 2008 IIRC.

Are you saying that if the car was profitable to make they would have left it in production relatively unchanged for 8-9yrs?

Most likely, the Mark VI was planned for release around 2010 overseas and 2011 in Australia. The Mark VII is due out in 2012 and it will use the new MQB architecture that the Mark VI was supposed to use if it were released in 2010 which will result in reduced manufacturing costs again.

[triode12]

Is that really true? The MKV was in production for 5yrs. Hardly sounds like it was rushed to be replaced by the MK6. Sounds like a normal model cycle to me.

Are you saying that if the car was profitable to make they would have left it in production relatively unchanged for 8-9yrs?

German cars (unlike Jap ones which have a 5 year model turnaround) generally have a longer model life - on average 9-10 years. The MkV Golf was only in production for 5-6 years (short in comparison to it's predecessors including the MkVI).

In some cases, some models continued to be made for specific markets. In the case of the Mk1, SA continued making the MKI Citi Golf till 2009 (http://www.worldcarfans.com/10911122...imited-edition) and Argentina and Brazil are still making a variant of the MkIV (http://www.volkswagen.com.ar/ar/es/m...ants-sel2.html).

Volkswagen Golf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BMW 3 Series - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mercedes-Benz C-Class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Corey_R]

Seriously guys... the fact that the MK6 is the MK5.5 is not a secret. Every single news / TV show who attended the car's launched reported as such at the time - because this information came from Volkswagen themselves. It's as Maverick has described it. The MKV just took too long to build each car.

Volkswagen said at the time of the launch of the MK6 that it was because the "design team" had full control over the MKV and there was little input from the proudction team. The MK6 was an out of cycle model designed by both teams to optimise product, and whilst they were at it, introduce several new features and technologies.

This is why the Audi A3 didn't go through a model change at the time.
This is why the MK6 used the MKV's platform.

The MK7 will have a new platform and the Audi A3 will likely come out using that platform slightly before the MK7 (at least by the last release schedule update I've seen).


I've had this argument before with other members, and at the time I pulled up transcripts of interviews with the VAG boss, various press releases from the MK6 release from car mags/orgs who attended the launch, including Fifth Gear who reported on it and described the same thing... can't be bothered doing the same thing for those who are still ignorant of it...

[triode12]

Seriously guys... the fact that the MK6 is the MK5.5 is not a secret. Every single news / TV show who attended the car's launched reported as such at the time - because this information came from Volkswagen themselves. It's as Maverick has described it. The MKV just took too long to build each car.

Volkswagen said at the time of the launch of the MK6 that it was because the "design team" had full control over the MKV and there was little input from the proudction team. The MK6 was an out of cycle model designed by both teams to optimise product, and whilst they were at it, introduce several new features and technologies.

This is why the Audi A3 didn't go through a model change at the time.
This is why the MK6 used the MKV's platform.

The MK7 will have a new platform and the Audi A3 will likely come out using that platform slightly before the MK7 (at least by the last release schedule update I've seen).


I've had this argument before with other members, and at the time I pulled up transcripts of interviews with the VAG boss, various press releases from the MK6 release from car mags/orgs who attended the launch, including Fifth Gear who reported on it and described the same thing... can't be bothered doing the same thing for those who are still ignorant of it...

Soooo...knowing the above, you would've known that they did this to cut costs!

[Corey_R]

Nah... they did this so it's one less crappy Japanese looking feature and is a definite improvement in the MK6 over the MKV

[triode12]

Nah... they did this so it's one less crappy Japanese looking feature and is a definite improvement in the MK6 over the MKV

[Whistler]

I love my new GTI but you have to wonder why there is no interior release for the fuel cap cover. IMHO that is pennypinching...

I am very confused by this post. Way more convenient to open a flap on the outside of the car without needing to press buttons on the inside. When I got my golf recently I was pleasantly surprised with this "feature". Finally the mainstream cars are using this simple method that has been used on more expensive makes for decades.
Enjoy the simplicity!

[Ideo]

I am very confused by this post. Way more convenient to open a flap on the outside of the car without needing to press buttons on the inside. When I got my golf recently I was pleasantly surprised with this "feature". Finally the mainstream cars are using this simple method that has been used on more expensive makes for decades.
Enjoy the simplicity!

It's on a mkVI so it's bad. According to some.