MK6 GTI - Rattle upon acceleration - Resolved via TPI: 2021062/7

[reaction]

So after my letter to Wangara and informing them of the TSB I recieved a letter back saying that they still believe the noise to "normal". I'm now in the process of arranging a time with the regional manager to take him for a drive.

BTW this noise is getting worse for me. I can recreate it without even blinking.

Also advised them that the GTI I took for a test drive (they didn't want me to take the one I actually bought) didn't have this sound, not that I could tell anyway and I was never told to expect such a rattle if indeed this is so "normal"

Will keep you guys up to date.

[GTI mk6]

So after my letter to Wangara and informing them of the TSB I recieved a letter back saying that they still believe the noise to "normal". I'm now in the process of arranging a time with the regional manager to take him for a drive.

BTW this noise is getting worse for me. I can recreate it without even blinking.

Also advised them that the GTI I took for a test drive (they didn't want me to take the one I actually bought) didn't have this sound, not that I could tell anyway and I was never told to expect such a rattle if indeed this is so "normal"

Will keep you guys up to date.

I am with you on this reaction.

Mine is also worse than when I first got the car, hear it every time I accelerate between 2-3000 revs (with the radio on).
(Nope, dont want to turn the radio up louder to drown it out) in case of suggestions hehe
I also didnt hear it in the demo car I took for 3 1/2 hrs(radio OFF) yet after I got my car, I heard a slight tinny noise straight away (again, now more pronounced).

When I went back to organise a second drive of the demo car with the saleguy, it had sold late the afternoon beforehand.
For me, its the one thing that ruins the pop, fart of the exhaust on a daily basis
Yes I can live with it, but I would def. prefer not to and wonder how much noiser it
will get....guess time will tell

Service manager acknowledges the noise, agreed it doesnt sound the best, and
as I have already said previously, felt the only way VWA would take notice was
for numerous complaints which would hopefully generate a fix.

[Beagle]

My corresponsdence with VW

Hi there

I'm as disgruntled as most others on this thread about this noise. I took it to my dealership who gave me the standard explanation and then told me to speak to VW directly as there is nothing they could do. The following is a chain of correspondence between myself and VW. This conversation ended with a supervisor telling me that he would not provide answers to the specific questions I'd asked and that he advise not to call again. I asked to speak to his manager and he told me he was high as I could go. LOL he's a team leader in a call centre!

Please read the e-mail chain below starting with VW's first response, followed by my specific questions and then the lame answer they provided.

"Dear (VW Owner) ,


We appreciate that you have taken the time to contact us with information
on your concern with your Volkswagen Golf GTI Version 6.

We were most disappointed to learn of your experience and sincerely
apologise that your personal experience at this time may perhaps not have
completely reflected Volkswagen Group Australia’s commitment to customer
satisfaction.

Volkswagen Group Australia prides itself on its customer satisfaction,
product quality and its dealer network. We appreciate that some of these
areas will be tested at times and strive to resolve any dissatisfaction
professionally and efficiently.

We have investigated your concerns and thank you for availing your vehicle
and time in order that Volkswagen Group Australia, in conjunction with
(Dealership name), could undertake an investigation into your reported
concerns relating to the exhaust noise from your Volkswagen Golf GTI.

An investigation of your concerns has been completed. Testing undertaken
during this time returned results consistent with the manufacturer’s
specifications. The test results, in addition to consultation with
Volkswagen technical specialists, indicate the operation of your vehicle to
be consistent with the design and operational characteristics of the
Volkswagen Golf GTI Version 6 model. Therefore no evidence of any
technical fault was prevalent during our investigation,

The noise you have experienced from the exhaust system of your Golf GTI
occurs, according to the manufacturer’s testing, at between 2400 and 3000
rpms. It occurs due to exhaust gas pulsations causing the flap and rods of
the wastegate to vibrate at the start of the boost air control.

Therefore, we must advise that the noise heard is harmless and in no way
affects the performance, drivability or service life of your engine.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment and we trust this clarifies our
position on the matter."

"Dear (VW person),

Thank you for your response, it is somewhat aligned with what (dealership name)
initially told me. Please can you clarify the following in certain terms:

1, Does every MK6 Golf GTI make the same noise between 2400-3000 rpm? If
this isn't the case, then my resale value will be lowered in comparison to
a MK6 GTI that doesn't make the same noise.

2, If I test drive a new GTI without the same noise, will VW address this
problem?

3, With regards to your comment:

"An investigation of your concerns has been completed. Testing undertaken
during this time returned results consistent with the manufacturer’s
specifications. The test results, in addition to consultation with
Volkswagen technical specialists, indicate the operation of your vehicle to
be consistent with the design and operational characteristics of the
Volkswagen Golf GTI Version 6 model."

What investigation have been undertaken on my car? From memory, the only
"investigation" was a 2-3 minute drive with a (dealership name) technician. Is
that the official VW definition of an investigation? The bonnet on the car
wasn't even lifted nor my exhaust inspected.

4 ,With regards to the the statement "Therefore, we must advise that the
noise heard is harmless and in no way affects the performance, drivability
or service life of your engine."

Is VW happy for this noise to be well publicised to potential buyers of the
vehicle? Mine can be heard with the windows up and the radio on. I think
potential VW customers should be made aware of this noise.

5, What needs to be done to get rid of this noise?

If you'd be kind enough to answer the specific questions to the 5 questions
above, it would be greatly appreciated."

"Dear Mr (WV Owner)

Thank you for your latest email.

As far as we are aware, all Volkswagen Golf GTI Version 6 vehicles have the
same exhaust noise, as this is a characteristic of this particular model.
As you are aware, you drove a comparable vehicle with the dealer, and you
acknowledged that the comparable vehicle has the same characteristic as
your vehicle.

This characteristic is something that dealers and valuers would be aware of
(just as they are aware of the various characteristics of other makes and
models of vehicle). Hence the resale value of your vehicle will be no
different than that of a vehicle with comparable mileage which is in
comparable condition (both exterior and interior).

The investigation undertaken was the test drive carried out by a qualified
Volkswagen technician. That investigation demonstrated that your vehicle is
performing precisely in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications.
Lifting the bonnet of the vehicle or any other inspection was unnecessary,
in view of the advice of Volkswagen technical specialists that the exhaust
noise of your vehicle is a characteristic of that model.

As indicated previously, the exhaust noise is harmless and in no way
affects the performance, driveability or service life of your engine. It is
no different than any other characteristic of any other make or model of
vehicle; as it is a characteristic rather than a fault, it is not something
that potential purchasers and owners are concerned about.

No modifications should be undertaken to change the noise. As advised
previously, it occurs due to exhaust gas pulsations causing the flap and
rods of the wastegate to vibrate at the start of the boost air control. It
is not a fault that requires rectification and any modification would
adversely affect the vehicle.

Thank you again for drawing your concerns to our attention. There is,
unfortunately, nothing further we can add."

At this point I spoke to the VW Case Managers Manager and asked why they were unwilling to answer my specific questions. He advised that they didn't have to answer specific questions. I asked to speak to someone that could, and he said that ther was no one else I could speak to and that I couldn't speak with his manager. During the conversation, he was speaking over me, rude in the tone of his voice and all together unhelpful. This is after I've just shelled out 50k for a brand new car.

I'd suggest that you air your concerns directly with VW at

VOLKSWAGEN Group Australia
PO Box 2316 Strawberry Hills
Phone: 1800 607 822

Best of luck!
Beagle

[reaction]

Perhaps time we try and establish if there is actually MK6 GTi's out there that doesn't have this problem. If some cars doesn't have this problen they I would like to know why not and why mine does.

Any hands?

[G-rig]

Interesting letter. You can't really argue that it is a fault, and agree it's a characteristic of this car. Depends how much you try and listen for it i guess, but is definitely not make or break.

[Tux]

Perhaps time we try and establish if there is actually MK6 GTi's out there that doesn't have this problem. If some cars doesn't have this problen they I would like to know why not and why mine does.

Any hands?

I haven't noticed this noise with my car which has just clicked over 3000 kms.

[MurphyTheElf]

Interesting letter. You can't really argue that it is a fault, and agree it's a characteristic of this car. Depends how much you try and listen for it i guess, but is definitely not make or break.

It's been clearly established that for many of us, it's not necessary to "try and listen" for the noise - it's there as clear as a bell. Windows up, radio on, it's still there. Considering several "newbies" on the forum have popped up simply to query the noise indicates that they had no idea that it was a characteristic and they were concerned enough and it was loud enough for them to investigate the issue themselves. As for the rattle being classed as a characteristic, what if VW decided that the GTI's open door chime played a Lady Gaga song? Some people wouldn't mind, but most people actually have taste. Therefore it's an undesirable characteristic and I can imagine there would be a lot of complaints. However, I highly doubt VW designed the car to make this rattle - it was an unintentional side effect of the wastegate or downpipe design that they have decided so far is too expensive to address. What needs to happen is for enough people to make the situation undesirable for them to turn a blind eye any longer.

[Corey_R]

Yet there are many that haven't heard this...

Since the people that can hear it say that it is loud enough to be heard over the radio with the windows shut, if you turn off the radio (and maybe open the windows), is it loud enough to be recorded?
A good recording of the sound may make it easier to describe and get concensus from others that they are in fact hearing the same thing.

[MurphyTheElf]

Yet there are many that haven't heard this...

Since the people that can hear it say that it is loud enough to be heard over the radio with the windows shut, if you turn off the radio (and maybe open the windows), is it loud enough to be recorded?
A good recording of the sound may make it easier to describe and get concensus from others that they are in fact hearing the same thing.

I've tried with a cheap video camera, but the microphone is rubbish. It either picks up too much wind noise from the open windows, or amplifies closer sounds. Whilst I can just distinguish the rattle on my recording, it's not convincing enough for skeptics.

[reaction]

I'm currently working on a few ideas to get a recording of the sound.

[ddre78]

I'm currently working on a few ideas to get a recording of the sound.

So am I.

Also I agree with those that say if you have to listen for it, you probably dont have the issue. Its obvious under all conditions.

Since a lot of people test drove the car and didnt hear it, it must be something thats crept into the production around the start of the year.

[Banzai]

In 1500kms I never heard the noise, even when driving next to a concrete barrier with the window down and radio off.

[MurphyTheElf]

Since a lot of people test drove the car and didnt hear it, it must be something thats crept into the production around the start of the year.

Nope. I took delivery of my GTI on October 30 2009 and the noise has been there since day 1.

In 1500kms I never heard the noise, even when driving next to a concrete barrier with the window down and radio off.

People that have car without the noise will be of enormous help to this cause. How can a noise that is a "characteristic of the car" not be present? If VWA refuse to fix cars afflicted with the rattle, then we should demand they "fix" those without!

[jwastrel]

Drive in a tunnel with the front passenger side window open, in 3rd gear under mild accelation between the 2400 and 3000 rev range.

The rattle will be loud and clear.

The wierd thing is I also didn't hear it when doing a test drive. It sounds terrible, but at least it is "mostly" harmless. I'm guessing if it didn't rattle the part would last longer however. Mechanically, a rattle usually increases stress on components....

[REXman]

In the 3 GTI's I tested, I never had the rattle sound. Doing about 30km in each.

The last 2 of those times, I was aware of the rattle, and could not recreate ANY sound like that, that people have been talking about.

If it was there I would have heard it.

PS Should I buy a E46 2004 M3 instead.