MK6 GTI - Rattle upon acceleration - Resolved via TPI: 2021062/7

[GTI mk6]

I just picked up my new GTI MKVI manual this afternoon and, without knowing about this problem, heard the rattling sound within the first hour of driving. I find it most easily reproducible in 3rd and 4th at low revs.

So when I got home I immediately googled it and found this thread. Like a lot of other people on here I find it really annoying. It may not be very loud, but when I first heard it I was like wtf!?!? My first reaction was "Someone has fanged the **** out of this car and caused it to 'ping'", something you usually only hear in crappy old cars. I'm pretty sure this isn't the desired reaction VW would like from a first time driver of one of their cars.

After reading through most of the posts I reckon the best thing to do would be to start up an online petition on a site like this: iPetitions: Start a free online petition / Create a petition

Then get everyone on here with the same problem to sign it and also hit up the other VW forums for more signatures. Then email it to the most appropriate VW representative. Seems like the most constructive thing we could do, rather than individually going into dealerships and recreating the issue only to be told "it's a characteristic of the car", which is by the way the biggest load of **** I've ever heard.

Below is a post from me way back, but no one responded at the time.
Count me in re: a petition as still havent got "used" to the noise which still annoys me and try to drown it out with music.

I spoke to the service manager about this annoying tinny sound last week when my car
was there getting looked at.

He acknowledged the sound and was very familiar with it.
I asked him what VW would do about this and he said....if enough of us complain
about it, they should look into it for a fix, but until they get enough complaints, probably
nothing will happen.
I didnt think to ask who we complain to? Is it our dealerships or to VWA directly?

Any thoughts from you guys on this?
Maybe we should all band together and complain as one to VWA?

[MurphyTheElf]

This sounds like it's action in a positive direction to me. I don't know how much detail people put in these on-line petitions, but considering most people still think this issue is the waste-gate, I don't think it would hurt to start compiling what you think the information will be in some posts in the thread here - what do you think?

- I was thinking a brief description of the sound
- A brief history of the VW response (maybe a reproduction of the official VW letter than many have been handed)
- A summary of what the issue actually is (i.e. downpipe)
- Evidence which confirms that it is the downpipe
- Finally of course, the course of action or response you'd like from VW

The reason I suggested compiling the information for the petition here, is you'd want to get the facts straight and an agreed concensus on what is/has happened - otherwise the petition could be plagued from the start.
Also - the "Evidence which confirms that it is the downpipe" may be the hardest one to get info on at this stage. I know that there has been a few people overseas that have changed the downpipe and had the issue go away, but I don't recall any forum members here having done this yet (although Guy_H said a customer in WA did have the issue go away).

All good points.

Since the noise can be quite subjective, we need to determine an accurate description. My personal quantification of the noise is a metallic rattle similar to that of a "pinging" engine - distinguishable in the 2400-3000 rpm range at moderate acceleration. It is more noticeable when the engine is under a greater load such as hill climbing.

The VW response was reproduced on page 4 of this thread.

I believe the garage in WA that did the downpipe replacement was Quattro Motors in Burswood. I'm going to give them a call tomorrow to confirm and ask them for further information. I'm still not 100% convinced it's the downpipe and not the wastegate, so we need another happy customer that has had the noise addressed.

If it does turn out to be the downpipe, VW's response should be the development of a noise-free part (if required) and replacement of the faulty part at no cost to the customer. Or free upgrade to an APR unit....

[Nate]

Murphy, it would be great if you wanted to take ownership of the petition and set it up. I'm new around here so thought it would be best if one of the regulars got involved. Although once it's set up anyone can spread the word about it.

Coreying, agree that it would be a good idea to get the particulars of the petition squared away on here before setting it up. All the points you listed are spot on I think and would be perfect for the description part of the petition.

Main things to sort out for the petition are:
- Title
- Description of the problem/history/purpose of the petition etc. [like what coreying suggested, most of this could probably be copy/pasted from posts in this thread]
- URL name eg. 'fixmygtivw'

After it's set up it's just a matter of making posts on the main forums in Oz and abroad with a link to the petition. All people need to do to 'sign' it is fill in their name, email address and make a comment if they want to. Might be an idea to ask people to type in the serial number of their car in the comments section to make it more legit than just a bunch of random names and email addresses.

[reaction]

Been noticing the sound on my GTI as well for the past couple of weeks. Its very minor but because its there its almost like its getting worse.

HATE it. Will take my car into VW next week to get looked at.

[Guy_H]

Watch out - maybe vw's fix will be a piece of fencing wire around the exhaust flex piece - will probably eliminate the noise at little cost!

[MurphyTheElf]

Watch out - maybe vw's fix will be a piece of fencing wire around the exhaust flex piece - will probably eliminate the noise at little cost!

If that indeed silenced the rattle.... excellent! Cheap for them, no noise for me. That's win-win!

I spoke to Quattro Motors today who put me in contact with the customer who got the exhaust replacement. I haven't heard from him yet but I'd like to determine whether the noise was the same in his as we are all experiencing. I've also booked a time to demonstrate the noise to a tech at Quattro since they are still yet to hear it.

[MIRSAD]

Hi,

This is example (google translated) of the Open Letter (from German website - related to 118TSI squealing noise) ... maybe it can be useful ...
It is basically confirming coreyings' points... also suggesting involvement of media, plus (only) list of affected owners ( with their details plus GTI VIN number).



"Ladies and Gentlemen,

We, the undersigned, are owners of a VW EOS 1.4 TSI (118kW), a 118kW Golf VI 1.4 TSI (), a Golf V 1.4 TSI (103kW / 125 kw), a Scirocco 1.4 TSI (118kW) or a Tiguan 1.4 TSI ( 110kW) and all affected by a feature of the twin charger engine:

As you know, this engine is often a high-frequency noise (hereinafter referred to squeal) during acceleration in the range 2000-3000 rpm on. You know the definition of your technical service system with better security.
This squeak is due to ease in the clutch of the compressor and occurs most often during switching.

You have instructed your contractor to make any repair attempts in relation to the squeaking noise. Following a non-representative Internet survey over 30% of all vehicles are affected. This noise usually occurs from 3.000km mileage and will, over time louder.

We expect from VW a written opinion that the squeak is recognized as a defect and is guaranteed a free disposal for the entire life of the vehicle.

We encourage you to continue to give us clear answers to these questions:

1st What does VW in order to solve the problem?
2nd How long will our VW still waiting for a solution?
3rd What will VW, if the problem can not be solved?

This letter is an open letter at the same time motor world to the editors of 'auto, motor und sport', 'Auto Bild', 'good trip' and 'ADAC'.

Yours sincerely,

First name, last name, street location, vehicle identification number
First name, last name, street location, vehicle identification number"
......................

[reaction]

So my car went into Wangara VW today and guess what ... I was told that this is a standard and its because my car is still being "run-in"

Im not going to buy this, I can't stand the noise and won't even let people drive with me because it sounds cheap and nasty.

Next ill be writing a nice letter and then if I don't get action I will go to my lawyers.

[Arcus]

Next ill be writing a nice letter and then if I don't get action I will go to my lawyers.

You may not need to:
Engine noise at 2500 rpms

That TSB seems to me to indicate VW (at least VWoA) finally taking this seriously. 'Bout Time.

[MurphyTheElf]

So my car went into Wangara VW today and guess what ... I was told that this is a standard and its because my car is still being "run-in"

Im not going to buy this, I can't stand the noise and won't even let people drive with me because it sounds cheap and nasty.

Next ill be writing a nice letter and then if I don't get action I will go to my lawyers.

I wonder if Dermot knows about this rubbish being served by the service department? If this noise was "standard due to run-in" then how much more run-in is mine, at 15,000kms, needing?

Due to more recent information about the noise coming from the flex-joint of the downpipe, I've asked my service department to take a closer inspection rather than checking existing bulletins for a close enough match of the symptoms.

I think the true cause needs to be determined by more than one source before being able to draft a petition.

[Corey_R]

You may not need to:
Engine noise at 2500 rpms

That TSB seems to me to indicate VW (at least VWoA) finally taking this seriously. 'Bout Time.

Wow - have you guys read this TSB?
So Volkswagen still thing it is the wastegate actuator rod and are saying the following:

Use caution when diagnosing the origin of the noise. Although the noise may be originating from the turbocharger, it can be amplified through resonance to the catalytic converter and be misdiagnosed as a loud converter."

So in other words, they're say it's not the downpipe...


But at least they have a formal diagnosis process, and an escalation process if it turns out to be the actuator rod. I'd recommend everyone look at the TSB and contact your service dept about it.

[MurphyTheElf]

You may not need to:
Engine noise at 2500 rpms

That TSB seems to me to indicate VW (at least VWoA) finally taking this seriously. 'Bout Time.

Great find - I've forwarded that bulletin to my service manager while my car is there. The bulletin may not have been released here, but the procedure is still relevant. If they apply that to my car today, then we can hopefully determine the true cause once and for all - and perhaps get some action!

[MurphyTheElf]

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it.

My dealer received an email back from "Volkswagen Technical". The email states that because the field fix has been released from VW USA and is not a fix that has been adopted by the factory, VW Australia will not endorse carrying out this procedure and will therefore it will not be covered under warranty.

So VW Australia are happy to endorse and copy a technical bulletin from VW of America explaining the source of a rattle as described by many customers. This bulletin, most importantly, requires no action. But VWA refuse to endorse a new bulletin describing critical troubleshooting that accurately identifies the source of the rattle, which will actually cost them perhaps 30 minutes in labour. More importantly, this new bulletin provides follow-up instructions in the event that the cause is as originally described. Absolutely indefensible behaviour from VWA.

I've asked my dealer to continue with the troubleshooting at my expense. If this eventually results in some action, then I'm going to shove the invoice up VWA's collective arseholes.

[Corey_R]

Ok... so obviously we're both not technical. More so, I don't have a MK6 GTI at my disposal to see how hard it is to access the wastegate actuator rod.
But rather than incurring expenses yourself, maybe it would be possible to carry out this test yourselves?
The test is:
1) Familiarise yourself with the sound using an easy to duplicate driving route and speed etc. (You guys should already have this covered)
2) Attach a 2 ounce (56.69g) "wheel weight" to the wastegate actuator rod
3) Repeat step 1 and take note about whether the noise has changed
4) Remove the weight.

So if the noise has changed, then VW are correct, it's the rod.
If the noise hasn't changed, then it's not the rod and could be the downpipe or something else.

[MurphyTheElf]

They have the car right now and I would like to have an answer today - one way or the other. They can do what they are good at, and I will continue to do what I am good at: sitting in front of my laptop complaining. Oh, and providing top-notch professional consulting at competitive prices.