Golf R Observations and Questions

[Mr_Bob]

that's the price of the APR divorced downpipe.

[dave_r]

All answered...

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/apr_exhaust_a3s3quattro-downpipe.html

This picture explains the improvements! Factory one is horrible.


So for $2495, you're getting this:


The extra $1500 gets your the rear muffler/outlets and section of straight pipe. This part I don't see as being too badly priced, about the same as most things. The $2500 for front section seems a bit high though?

[Corey_R]

The APR Golf R/S3/TT-R Downpipe comes in two models. Because it is a "Divorced Downpipe" there is one to match the stock K04 turbo and one to match the Stage 3 Turbo. The price is the same.

Here is a picture of the version for the K04 vs Stock:


And here is the picture of the complete K04 downpipe package:


It includes the high flow catalytic converter, and an adaptor to then fit to the stock midpipe. It's $2495.
It is actually this assembly which gives you most of your power gain. Included in the cost of the downpipe is the "upgrade" to Stage II ECU (from Stage I) which is required because of the increase in performance that this provides.

So this is what I've meant by saying that I'm not surprised that the cost of the complete APR Golf R TBE is $4k.
Even the alternative "rear silencer" and "axleback" products that I've seen for the S3 and GTI and have started to see for the R are usually still mated with the APR Downpipe if the owner is looking for a performance increase and not just a change in "sound", and those rear silencer kits have in themselves ranged from $1200 to $2000 here locally.

Hence why I've said that effectively this new part is $1500 piece. And for that you're getting the rear silence and the mid-pipe (which is the upper most pipe in this picture):



So I don't know guys, I'm not an exhaust specialist here, but I'm not sure really what the issue with the price is. Look at this HKS Exhaust for the R33 Skyline for example:

I've picked this particular exhaust because it's also from a well known (in Skyline-land) company, and it's also an "off the shelf" product rather than a custom product.
It's $1198 from Nismo.com.au. So it's only $300 cheaper than the APR R "Catback" exhaust, and well, considering the obvious size differences between the R exhaust and the Skyline exhaust, I think $300 more for the APR is a comparative bargain.

I also feel the other point worth mentioning, is whilst I agree, the cost of upgrades for Euro cars always seems more expensive than the Japanese cars, think of why you are purchasing a Euro car in the first place!

Refinement

You're at the point in your life where you're sick of the "rawness" (or whatever) of the Japanese cars and you're looking for the refinement which comes from a Euro, whilst not compromising too much, if at all, on performance.

So sure, you could put an exhaust as small and loud as the HKS on your Golf R if you wanted to, but then you also lose part of the reason that you're getting the Euro in the first place. Is $300 additional really worth losing that over?

[dave_r]

I have no issues with the catback section. But $2500 for the other bit is crazy! And how does it being a euro car justify the price?

What refinement are you talking about? Its still stainless steel and doing the same job! If being a euro made car justifies a price gouging then fark me!

[Corey_R]

Volume, vibration, drone etc. Those things are not necessarily factors in skyline, wrx and falcondore exhaust upgrades which people are sitting as their basis for $2k exhaust systems they've installed in the past.

Again, the $2500 also includes the Stage II software upgrade...

[dave_r]

Volume, vibration, drone etc. Those things are not necessarily factors in skyline, wrx and falcondore exhaust upgrades which people are sitting as their basis for $2k exhaust systems they've installed in the past.

There are plenty of exhausts for the cars you list which introduce or avoid the issues you list so there is still no valid justification. Again, I am not disputing the catback item anyway.

Again, the $2500 also includes the Stage II software upgrade...

Ok lets clarify that then, if you buy the $3995 full exhaust package, do you get a stage 2 tune included without needing to buy the stage 1 tune? If so that would be good value.

If you're telling me the $3995 requires another $1695 for the Stage 1 tune, then damn!

PS, I'm not interested in this "euro" car justification. It's just a Golf. I think they're a great car, hence the purchase but it isn't a valid reason to justify why something costs so bloody much.

[REXman]

I have no issues with the catback section. But $2500 for the other bit is crazy! And how does it being a euro car justify the price?

What refinement are you talking about? Its still stainless steel and doing the same job! If being a euro made car justifies a price gouging then fark me!

Exactly. I think Corey must be used to some of the crap that only from bog an custom exhaust places to be blunt.

The CAR is euro, the exhaust though, is locally made and made out of metal.

That HKS job is a good brand but that one looks ordinary. You can get awesome trust exhausts that look like Corey's mk V GTI one.

And as for different model downpipes that's the same as the STI quad TBE or most exhausts to be honest, it fits the stock turbo but you can also get the upgrade which is basically very similar but has a different flange. In some cases the divorce pipe might be a different length or slight change in shape.... They are already pre made off the shelf. They have been tested on machines for flow, at least meet the factory requirements for cat placement and they use ceramic cats in my one, and are backed up with dyne print outs of expected gains, they also meet legal requirements. If you go to hitech like right now, he'll have most exhausts there which have been made and sold off the shelf, they only do custom if it's some crazy car, or some piece of crap they haven't done before.

I know APR is sponsored and all, but man 4k for a "euro" exhaust that is made.. In Australia. is expensive. I know the car is euro, but it's just a golf, really.

[REXman]

And it never had drone.. Sounded like a stock sti at idle.. Then above 3.5-4k rpm.. Hang on..! Lol at it's just a golf.. I hadn't seen your post but that's where I'm coming from too. HiTech are actually used by Subaru and other auto brands for their factory systems.. But yeah grab your ankles for $6k for a tune and exhaust on a golf, nice

[Corey_R]

My point is that yes, these are a Golf, but both of you have posted numerous times in the past about why you're purchasing the R instead of other alternatives such as the WRX and Lancers etc again. I have bought multiple VW's for these reasons too. As such, I personally have no issue paying a little bit more to ensure that aftermarket accessories I purchase are designed to maintain that higher level of quality and refinement that you get from a Golf compared to a WRX or Lancer etc.

But if you prefer to go some place like HiTech and use their product then great. But thus far you are comparing this to what? Not to products for the R and with todays prices, but based on what you once paid for a product for a previous car you owned? Why not actually price the alternatives first?

And then even if you do, if you think that you can compare the quality and value of a product from a picture, then we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I think that you're kidding yourselves. You can't tell weld types, material types or quality, weight, noise, internal structure, or performance, from a picture.

Btw, I was an APR customer months before finding this site. Actually, I found this site while looking for a place to sell my APR gear that I recovered from my MKV GTI. So my faith in their product and quality has nothing to do with them being a sponsor here.

[dave_r]

I'm not comparing quality from photos, nor do I have any experience or interest in HiTech.

From my limited experience in this place, it appears that people instantly accept that because they now drive a "euro" that aftermarket parts cost more? What stupid logic is that? A bolt on exhaust will have to go through the same design and manufacture regardless of whether its a Golf R or STi. They're made of the same materials and in both cases people expect a good result.

All I'd like answered is my previous question to ensure I have the facts. Does the full exhaust including ECU retune cost $3995 or is there an additional $1695? Big difference IMO.

[Corey_R]

dave-, and what I've been trying to explain is, that it's not "just because it's Euro", it's because it's a better quality car to begin with than the alternatives for which people are basing their lower cost products purchased previously on. Additionally, all of this information was available a long time before you purchased your Rs (even the full R exhaust is priced the same as the S3, so again this shouldn't be too much of a surprise to anyone).

To answer your question about cost, I've answered that already but I'll clarify again. Yes, it's $3995 for the full exhaust (including downpipe, high flow cat, and stage II ecu upgrade from stage I). You also need to purchase the Stage I software.

As I said above. Lets stop talking about prices from the past for cars from other brands, and look at products for the Golf R. So far the old cat back systems I've found and posted links to are more expensive than the APR, and I haven't yet found altneratives for the downpipe.

Even if you do chose to go to another exhaust manufacturer, if they product an exhaust which increases the performance by the amounts that the APR downpipe and cat does, then you'll need to get a Stage II tune from someone, otherwise you're car is at a decent risk of reverting into "limp mode".

[dave_r]

Again just because the S3 is priced the same doesn't make it right and I have no issues with the catback exhaust which you keep bringing up. $1500 is probably close enough to the average price.

$2495 for a front/dump pipe and cat is crazy, the "free" upgrade to Stage II is not offering any value given the requirement to spend another $1695 on an ECU remap at the same time. They just upload a different file to Stage I.

Given this is an observation thread, its my observation that people have deluded themselves into thinking that a $40-70k car from a euro badge can justify absorbent prices because of a perceived quality improvement. The after market people have seen this and are laughing all the way to the bank IMO.

At best, I'll entertain the $1695 retune as decent bang for buck, but beyond that I'll leave the cash aside to buy something better the next time around.

[Guy_H]

Pretty simple to solve.

Dave & Rexman both buy different exhausts for their R, then we can do one on one comparisons on price, quality, noise & Horsepower compared to ours.

Happy to take that challenge anywhere, anytime - against any other exhaust. I know how much development time we put into ours & I know exactly how much labour to produce it. I would love to see a divorced wastegate stainless tig welded system with our designed (internal) rear muffler built anywhere for less than 4k.

There is the challenge, no use bashing a keyboard about it - someone make one!

[REXman]

GUY, that sounds like a date, I'll be getting my car in December at the earliest. So then Christmas/new years time. I'll drive it around for a month or two, then I'll do it for sure. Like I said if I had my car in June when I went to the dealer, I would have already done it by now.

But yeah sorry GUY, $4k is too much for a golf exhaust. I think what Dave said about tuner taking advantage of people not in the know, and who are a bit easily led just cause they think there car is a mad euro.. When it's a golf hatch that's getting 12kw.. And it's not just your place.. I guess it's just noticeable when you can get quality elsewhere for cheaper.. So the comparo is on if I don't go one of yours

[PeDiES]

Yeah, I haven't seen the Remus "exhaust" for the Golf R yet... however, they do have a "rear silencer" for the Golf R32" and at $1731 it's actually more expensive than the Golf R exhaust (after taking into account that the divorced downpipe utilised in the APR setup is worth $2495).

it costs a little over half of the apr exhaust but its only catback not turbo back