The Official Mk6 Golf DSG Clutch / Shudder / Squeal Issues Thread

[ziggyboy]

I have experienced judder. Gear 2 after the car had warmed up, driving in D mode it rears its head intermittently. Mostly occurs in city areas with hills. My driving is 70% highway. I drive mostly in manual mode because it's more fun than D mode and also has no juddering due to a different shift point for gear 1 to 2.

I never bothered changing clutch packs because I believe the shudder would return anyway as I have a theory that it related to the design of the dq200 and the shift point of D2 under certain driving scenarios.

Yeah, this proves that the shudder doesn't occur due to "wrong" use of the gearbox. I moved from Sydney to Canberra where I had my clutches changed. My driving in Canberra is mostly freeway with light traffic, yet the shudder came back after 20,000 kms. I don't think I'm driving it in an unusual manner. I came from a Toyota Yaris and by no means a petrol head. I would think the majority of people who bought low end VW's (those fitted with DQ200's) are "normal" or "average" drivers. If the average drivers are not driving these gearboxes correctly then they should probably re-evaluate the use of the DSG7 in such cars.

[UKV]

I have experienced judder. Gear 2 after the car had warmed up, driving in D mode it rears its head intermittently. Mostly occurs in city areas with hills. My driving is 70% highway. I drive mostly in manual mode because it's more fun than D mode and also has no juddering due to a different shift point for gear 1 to 2.

I never bothered changing clutch packs because I believe the shudder would return anyway as I have a theory that it related to the design of the dq200 and the shift point of D2 under certain driving scenarios.

Please take a look at "arguments and assessment" from VAG about related issue (shudder and etc.):

Background and reasoning to comfort complaints DQ200
Original: http://yadi.sk/d/SLIrh7uWKei47 (pdf-file, 71.7 Kb, German language),
Bing's translation: http://yadi.sk/d/5VMWSGKGKeiXk (txt-file, 10.5 Kb, English language).

This document taken from new TPI about shudder and etc. of DQ200:
http://yadi.sk/d/HkBNtOmXKejod (mht-file, 45.8 Kb, English language)

Technical product information (VW)
Transaction No.: 2035345/1
Transmission: DSG complaints (All vehicles with DQ200)
Release date: 28-Oct-2013

Customer statement / workshop findings

Customer statement:
• Brief rubbing/clattering noise when accelerating from low speed in 2nd gear.
or
• Juddering/clattering when accelerating in 2nd gear for about 1-2 seconds (for example when turning off or reaccelerating between 5 and 10 km/h).
or
• Vibrations, juddering/clattering when changing from 1st to 2nd gear at low speed (no individual jerk).
or
• Juddering/clattering when pulling away.
or
• Uncomfortable gear change (individual jerk).


Workshop findings:
• One or several of the customer statements can be reproduced.


Technical background
—

Production change
—

Measure

Try to reproduce the customer complaint so that it can be clearly assigned to this TPI. The following measure must only be carried out, if all the criteria (model/type, chassis number, engine/gearbox code, PR number(s), part number, software version etc.) Otherwise this solution won't work and repeat repairs may be necessary. In such a case, we may reject the warranty claim and redebit the parts.

• Test drive the vehicle.
‒ If the customer complaint cannot be reproduced, no warranty repairs must be carried out.

See attached argumentation. (provided by above links)

If the complaint is confirmed, proceed as follows:

Make sure that the software versions of the control units are up-to-date.

• Perform the guided fault finding
‒ Deal with any entries according to the guided fault finding. Reassess the complaint.

• Check whether a relevant TPI has been published:
‒ If a TPI is available, complete it.

• If the complaint persists, perform a basic settings of the gearbox according to the guided functions.

• Perform an adaptation drive and check whether the complaint persists. A requirement is that the diagnosis protocol confirms the basic settings of the gearbox (in the measured value blocks 180 and 200 of the gearbox control unit the successful adaptation points are counted in the 1st place).

• If the complaint is unchanged, contact the importer.

• For goodwill accounting a record of the complete application of repair instructions (TPI) or the diagnosis (guided fault finding) is necessary. Complete the attached document and include it with the warranty claim.

The "arguments and assessment" from VAG about related issue (shudder and etc.) discover a lot of technical revelations and give some interesting tips (about using 4-th gear).

It seems that, all of shudder issues are kind of software problem:

"
... The electronic control of the couplings in the DSG tried to offer the same comfort as a converter automatic at a high level. In individual situations succeed due to the technical limitations not in its entirety.
... The DSG gearbox takes control of the clutches of a learned characteristic field. It may be possible in some cases that for a certain situation is (still) not optimally engineered in the control unit and the driver experienced this as easy plucking at the start-up."

Also, please take a look at next indicative info (about double dry clutch transmission):

Dry Clutch DCTs Are on Their Way Out, says Getrag CTO
Dry Clutch DCTs Are on Their Way Out, says Getrag CTO | DrivelineNEWS.com

Dual-clutch transmissions: dry clutch on the way out?

http://paultan.org/2014/03/17/dual-clutch-transmissions-dry-clutch/

[Rawcpoppa]

Thanks for the info UKV. Lots of stuff to read. Is there anywhere that has online TPI documents? It's a pain to download gigs worth of data to update the etka database just for one or two TPIs.

Can't say I agree with Getrag's article though. They are making a wet clutch so what else would they say about dry? Also if the premise is software related in terms of the juddering issues with Dq200 then there isn't a fundamental flaw in dry clutch dsgs.

It's not clear though where the "Arguments and Assessments" from VAG came from. Is it part of a VW TPI?

[zardoz]

Had the clutch pack replacement performed on my 118TSI. Apparently it showed up straight away under the diagnostics (so not sure about this "test drive the vehicle" diagnosis when there is a way to actually measure performance). Shudder from 1st to 2nd is gone but there's seemingly more shutter starting out on 1st from a standstill. It was approaching more than annoying and I had one occasion where I was hit with rapid deceleration during a 1st to 2nd change on sports mode while merging into traffic.

I had a 90TSI hatch as a loaner car for a day and it was significantly smoother - none of the shudder issues described here. Also found the Golf 7 to be a very different gearbox in terms of smoothness (wow!) but that thing only had a few thousand kms on the clock.

[VWisVW]

hi all, im too experiencing the shuddering problem in 2nd as mentioned. The dsg shudders when taking off slowly after a corner. I always get the shudder at the same corner at my street because i drive slower and more gentle around the neighborhood. When taking off from a stand still on a hill it can sometimes shudder for a good 2~3 seconds which is very irritating.
Another thing i noticed is that the my 7speed dsg is not shifting as fast or crisp as the 6speed wet clutch. My family had the mkv gti and now a mkvi R and both gearbox shifts perfectly and the needle on tachometer jumps back almost instantly after changing to a higher gear. Also the other day when i drove the my mates brand new mk7 90tsi, gear shifts were also perfect and lightening quick and was able to make dsg farts at low revs. In comparison the gearshifts in my 118tsi does not feel as quick and can't feel dsg farts at all. I sometimes watch the tachometer and the needle is jumping back much slower and sometimes hesitates between shifts even when my foots on the throttle all the time trying to accelerate. I do get faster shifts at higher revs (around 4000) and can hear the fart so i know the gearbox can shift a lot faster. Im wondering if anyone have notice this with their 7spd dsg as I didnt find anything after search. I wanna know if this is caused by worn clutch plates or can be fixed by a dsg factory reflash. My car is a 2012 118tsi and i bought from barloworld vw FD second hand. I will be taking the car back as i still have 8 month of factory warranty left. But i doubt they will do anything just because i 'think' it is shifting a bit slower than it should. I think its best to selll the car at end of year and upgrade to a gti or the r.

[redhot]

I have experienced judder. Gear 2 after the car had warmed up, driving in D mode it rears its head intermittently. Mostly occurs in city areas with hills. My driving is 70% highway. I drive mostly in manual mode because it's more fun than D mode and also has no juddering due to a different shift point for gear 1 to 2.

I never bothered changing clutch packs because I believe the shudder would return anyway as I have a theory that it related to the design of the dq200 and the shift point of D2 under certain driving scenarios.

Thought my experience might be of interest;

# 2009 118TSI Comfortline DSG; 81,000 klms. Always driven in Manual.
# Recent 7 years service at VW dealer (as usual).
# Fault logged re clutch (no driveability symptoms)
# Log details sent to Germany via dealer for decision.
# Germany says replace clutch pack.
# VWA offer parts + 20% labor. Owner to pay 80%.
# Owner (me) unhappy; clutch should not fail at 80K.
# Customer Care state offer won't be improved.
# Email new MD. Email Dir Customer Relations.
# 48 hrs pass. VWA say TOTAL cost will be covered by VWA.
.............Plus.......your next service is on us (VWA).
Good result. Happy owner!!!!!

[Rawcpoppa]

Thought my experience might be of interest;

# 2009 118TSI Comfortline DSG; 81,000 klms. Always driven in Manual.
# Recent 7 years service at VW dealer (as usual).
# Fault logged re clutch (no driveability symptoms)
# Log details sent to Germany via dealer for decision.
# Germany says replace clutch pack.
# VWA offer parts + 20% labor. Owner to pay 80%.
# Owner (me) unhappy; clutch should not fail at 80K.
# Customer Care state offer won't be improved.
# Email new MD. Email Dir Customer Relations.
# 48 hrs pass. VWA say TOTAL cost will be covered by VWA.
.............Plus.......your next service is on us (VWA).
Good result. Happy owner!!!!!

I'm happy for you. That response is amazing. I have no faults just yet and hopefully it stays that way. Now doing 117,000 km.

[SpruceMoose]

Hi guys,

Making my first post here.

I recently bought a second hand 2012 Golf 90TSI (Auto). Was stoked with my purchase however was told by my specialist that I would need to take it to the VW dealer to fix the shudder that seems to happy at slow speeds. Was told it would cost between 3 to 4k. Having paid about $15000 for it, it was safe to say I'm not too happy.

I was told that VW might cover some of it as part of "goodwill". The car itself has been regularly serviced at the VW dealership, it has run only 23000km but it is about 1.5 years out of warranty. What are my chances of getting out of paying the full repair cost?

[tigger73]

You might be lucky due to low mileage and service history.... but then again VW is cash strapped and you're the second owner.

You probably have more rights under consumer law. How recent was the purchase and was it through a dealer or private sale?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ryeman]

23K and VW serviced!
Disgusting!
The general public are the test bed for VW technology........and it's the reason they won't have a bar of extending their warranty period out to 5 years.......regaining some sort of positive publicity at this time would be a no-brainer you'd think.
Imagine if was ANY brand of Asian vehicle (even Chinese).

[SpruceMoose]

It was purchased a month ago through a private seller. I'm pretty annoyed that I will have to shell out at least 3k for a car I just bought for 15k.

Was pretty happy about owning a Golf till now haha.

[VW Convert]

23K and VW serviced!
Disgusting!
The general public are the test bed for VW technology........and it's the reason they won't have a bar of extending their warranty period out to 5 years.......regaining some sort of positive publicity at this time would be a no-brainer you'd think.
Imagine if was ANY brand of Asian vehicle (even Chinese).

If you are suggesting Asian vehicles don't have issues you are incorrect. I used to work with a very large wholesaler of automatic transmission spare parts, at one point, for 12 months or so, Hyundai were having so much trouble with a certain transmission that they were unable to keep up the supply of parts so the dealers were buying off the company I worked for to perform warranty work.

Speaking of Korean vehicles, Holden Captiva (Daewoo) had numerous issues as did Kia Sorento so much so that all or nearly all of the particular model had engines replaced under warranty. No manufacturer is immune from manufacturing faults including Asian manufacturers.

Manufacturers test vehicles over hundreds of thousands of kilometres prior to releasing them but the reality is, there is no substitiute for real world driving to highlight deficiencies in design.

Cheers

George

[Ryeman]

Asian manufacurers avoid 'loss of face' VW doesn't bother.
I've never bothered to take a Japanese new vehicle back for any genuine service ......I always did it myself - going back to the first '73 Civic......boringly reliable and not something you'd boast about.
Thats the difference.
It was so simple - all they had to do was back their own product with a 5 (not 7) year warranty and they would have cheered up so many owners, and we know why they won't.

[VW Convert]

Asian manufacurers avoid 'loss of face' VW doesn't bother.
I've never bothered to take a Japanese new vehicle back for any genuine service ......I always did it myself - going back to the first '73 Civic......boringly reliable and not something you'd boast about.
Thats the difference.

What difference? VW repair or replace the affected item same as the Asian companies. There are many examples of VW rectifying defects outside the terms of the manufacturer's warranty just as there are with Asian manufacturers.

It's not about them being nice guys and there's no face saving involved, if it were not for our consumer laws, ALL of the manufacturers would reject claims outside the warranty period as they used to in the days before our consumer laws came into being. I can attest to this having purchased a lemon Japanese car back in the old days, their attitude was basically get stuffed, we're not interested.

Your point was that VW use the general public as a test bed for their technology, reality is that all manufacturers do just that.

Cheers

George

[Ryeman]

VW keeps its 'recalls' inhouse as service updates because there are just so many of them.
I don't recall many AllRoads being tested in Australia's outback for the same reason a 5 year warranty is a pipe dream.