Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[Corey_R]

The R is one of the best traffic light weapons in any conditions....

I'm not sure there is any new car for the money which could touch it....

[sabloke]

Look, I don't think anyone said that a proper AWD is not better than any FWD. Only a fool would say that. However, we are debating here R's AWD superiority over GTI's FWD-iness, not AWD over FWD in general. R's part time Haldex AWD is nothing like Evo's or STi's permanent AWD, who are we kidding? That's why properly sorted FWD cars like RS and RS250 are all over it on a track.

Read EVO's February 2011 R/STi/EVO comparo that tells the whole story. Their conclusion: "It certainly doesn't feel four-wheel-drive or exploit the fact that is is, like the Mitsubishi and Subaru." That sums it up, like it or not.

[Danny]

The R is one of the best traffic light weapons in any conditions....

I'm not sure there is any new car for the money which could touch it....

Hey Corey,

Yeah, gonna have to agree with you there. In DSG form, as far as hatches go, the R DSG has it in spades over any other manual hatch out there in a straight line. I dread the day where a DSG R pilot wants to have a traffic light stoush with Megs and I.

I knew this, when I tried to change my order to DSG (and United Grey) unfortunately I was met with the revelation that my now 9 month wait would start again. Corey, it was you who made the comment that the Manual Golf R lacks the R&D, that goes into the DSG, and yes bud, you were 110% spot on. It seems like VW have given up on the manuals.

The Manual Golf R I do not believe would trump my Meg in a straight line, no way, and as a drivers car, neither would come close. But the R is Nay a kidney shaker. Its a lovely place to do business in, clinical, where the meg is loud, bumpy, white knuckle fun. Yes the Golf R is a tad inert, the engine note inoffensive, yes it does lack character compared to the Meg. But there is a LOT to love. There is a reason I sold a 182 Cup Clio Sport, JUST to put an order on a Golf R, sadly, 9 months is a long time to think, and read reviews, and test drive other offerings. I ordered my Golf R in October, before the 250 was even here in Oz

There is a lot I gained in going the RenaultSport vehicle, but there is also a lot I lost, and I know that when I see no screen, no HDD, nor Sunroof, nor ACC, and when I listen to that horrible stereo, But the looks, the attention it gains, and the way the thing drives with that LSD is beyond amazing, that it may as well be AWD. If this thing is capable of lighting up the treads around corners, I am yet to experience it, It is that well sorted. It is unfortunate, but we may never see a hatch that offers the best of both worlds here in this type of application, and at the present point in time, Its either your Q car VW, cruiser, or the raw as balls out Megane 250.

Interesting times indeed.

[WhiteJames]

Baseline comparison for Golf R

Forget about baseline Dyno runs. I’ve suggested to Ray that he drive the Renault Megane RS250 as a baseline comparison with his forthcoming Golf R, if it ever arrives. This will enable him to experience how a well sorted hot-hatch should drive before he embarks on his upgrade plans with his Golf R.

He already has pricing for the following upgrades to be supplied & fitted in the one hit once the EA113 motor has a few miles under its belt:

APR Stage 1 tune.
APR TBE.
H&R small solid adjustable sway bars F & R.
Brembo two piece 355mm big brake kit.

These upgrades should allow his Golf R to steer and stop as well as it accelerates, which are two important aspects tending towards driveability. It should also put his forthcoming R comfortably above the Renault Megane RS250 in terms of performance (I should hope so!).

He’s looking at having all this supplied & fitted by Derek @ European Autotech as apparently Derek is now a Master APR Tuner.

He’s probably going to need the Fuel Pump Upgrade to prevent any fuel surge with the EA113 motor imo. A larger intercooler may also be prudent later down the track imo.

I’d rather go the Renault and pocket the change. Each to their own. These plans are still some months away. Have to wait and see if the Golf R arrives on time.

Cheers
WJ

[Fab_R]

Hey Corey,

Yeah, gonna have to agree with you there. In DSG form, as far as hatches go, the R DSG has it in spades over any other manual hatch out there in a straight line. I dread the day where a DSG R pilot wants to have a traffic light stoush with Megs and I.

I knew this, when I tried to change my order to DSG (and United Grey) unfortunately I was met with the revelation that my now 9 month wait would start again. Corey, it was you who made the comment that the Manual Golf R lacks the R&D, that goes into the DSG, and yes bud, you were 110% spot on. It seems like VW have given up on the manuals.

The Manual Golf R I do not believe would trump my Meg in a straight line, no way, and as a drivers car, neither would come close. But the R is Nay a kidney shaker. Its a lovely place to do business in, clinical, where the meg is loud, bumpy, white knuckle fun. Yes the Golf R is a tad inert, the engine note inoffensive, yes it does lack character compared to the Meg. But there is a LOT to love. There is a reason I sold a 182 Cup Clio Sport, JUST to put an order on a Golf R, sadly, 9 months is a long time to think, and read reviews, and test drive other offerings. I ordered my Golf R in October, before the 250 was even here in Oz

There is a lot I gained in going the RenaultSport vehicle, but there is also a lot I lost, and I know that when I see no screen, no HDD, nor Sunroof, nor ACC, and when I listen to that horrible stereo, But the looks, the attention it gains, and the way the thing drives with that LSD is beyond amazing, that it may as well be AWD. If this thing is capable of lighting up the treads around corners, I am yet to experience it, It is that well sorted. It is unfortunate, but we may never see a hatch that offers the best of both worlds here in this type of application, and at the present point in time, Its either your Q car VW, cruiser, or the raw as balls out Megane 250.

Interesting times indeed.

Hey Danny i cant believe you cancelled man, but I understand your reasons - 9 month wait is ridiculous!!

Drop into Ringwood when you get a chance. Would love to check Meg out....

[Whistler]

Look, I don't think anyone said that a proper AWD is not better than any FWD. Only a fool would say that. However, we are debating here R's AWD superiority over GTI's FWD-iness, not AWD over FWD in general. R's part time Haldex AWD is nothing like Evo's or STi's permanent AWD, who are we kidding? That's why properly sorted FWD cars like RS and RS250 are all over it on a track.

Read EVO's February 2011 R/STi/EVO comparo that tells the whole story. Their conclusion: "It certainly doesn't feel four-wheel-drive or exploit the fact that is is, like the Mitsubishi and Subaru." That sums it up, like it or not.

No, we are debating R vs. GTI (per the thread). A primary benefit of the R over GTI is AWD. Whereas one benefit of the GTI over the R is.... Ummm.... Oh yeh... It's cheaper and mother-in-laws drive them.

Lol

[sabloke]

I wouldn't know mate, to me most Golfs look the same... I'm sure there must be a few mother-in-lawas driving Rs, too

R's part time AWD is in fact 90% front wheels most of the time. I wouldn't believe the 10% sent to the rears makes any difference for normal driving. The only advantage over the GTI seems to be a more balance car due to extra weight of the AWD system. No use to bag the GTI since they're really the same car.

[Danny]

Hey Danny i cant believe you cancelled man, but I understand your reasons - 9 month wait is ridiculous!!

Drop into Ringwood when you get a chance. Would love to check Meg out....

Hey Fab!

Sweet as, should hit us up next time you go for a cruise too. Only had the Meggy a week, bought it just up the road from you. Have had my eye out for that sweet sweet R of yours, and would have definitely dropped in if I'd seen it! Anyway, we're all run in now, so I'll come past one of these days!

-Dan

[hooba]

The Golf manual turned me off due to:

Electronic throttle intervention.
Long and ill-defined throws between gates.
Imo less front end spring rate of the manual GTI –v- DSG GTI increasing comfort, but reduced chassis control.
Clutch replacements every 60-90K km.

I respect your first three points, all valid and it is really up to the individual as to how big an issue it really is.

However the last point about clutch replacements and therefore maintenance being a reason to choose DSG over a manual shouldn't go unchallenged. How do you reconcile the relative reliability of the manual vs the DSG (the DSG's issues have been discussed extensively on this forum)? Did you factor in the cost of the DSG service every 60,000kms?

[Fab_R]

Hey Fab!

Sweet as, should hit us up next time you go for a cruise too. Only had the Meggy a week, bought it just up the road from you. Have had my eye out for that sweet sweet R of yours, and would have definitely dropped in if I'd seen it! Anyway, we're all run in now, so I'll come past one of these days!

-Dan

Great mate...sounds good!!
Look forward to it.

[Lima]

I wouldn't know mate, to me most Golfs look the same... I'm sure there must be a few mother-in-lawas driving Rs, too

R's part time AWD is in fact 90% front wheels most of the time. I wouldn't believe the 10% sent to the rears makes any difference for normal driving. The only advantage over the GTI seems to be a more balance car due to extra weight of the AWD system. No use to bag the GTI since they're really the same car.

Got much experience with a Haldex equipped car? Or, even better, got much experience in a VAG Haldex car vs a VAG fwd? Around town, in dry conditions, sure there's not much difference.

On a twisty road, or on a wet day on any type of road, the benefits are clear in favour of 4motion/quattro/whatever you want to call it.

Yes, of course, Haldex is not "full-time" awd, but for most of us that point is the theory, whereas in practice it may as well be a full-time system. The Haldex IV setup used on the R (and my S3) is vastly improved for earlier versions and will send power to the rear wheels quicker than any human can detect.

Yes, the car will still understeer, it's not a perfect setup, but the point at which that happens in an R is beyond what a GTI can achieve.

[REXman]

I wouldn't know mate, to me most Golfs look the same... I'm sure there must be a few mother-in-lawas driving Rs, too

R's part time AWD is in fact 90% front wheels most of the time. I wouldn't believe the 10% sent to the rears makes any difference for normal driving. The only advantage over the GTI seems to be a more balance car due to extra weight of the AWD system. No use to bag the GTI since they're really the same car.

They all the same..? Sorta like how your Clio looks.. Like a Clio..! If you think all golfs look the same then you need glasses. Or need to get back to your Renault forum.

Look mate the stats you are giving (90%/10%) are totally bogus. It is completely dependent on how the car is driven.

Let me start by saying I do not think the AWD system in the R and the S3 are better than an EVO's.

But, the new Haldex system apparently can now lock up the diff or whatever it does and send ALL the power to the rear. Essentially making it a RWD for just a moment -when it needs it. And it does need the front wheels to slip in order to do it.

Also, like stated above it reacts quicker than a human would notice to the point where it simply behaves like a full time AWD.

It's a solid system and on some long sweepers at 180km/h (mates track) you can feel it bring you into line and try and fight that understeer feeling..

On various strut braced/ lowered /heasman aligned /quick WRXs I have had.. It is a simple case of get the car going but then the car follows it's own line, such is the floatiness of that style of set up.

I have to say the R does a better job and really works and as many people have found first hand, it works really well.

[Justin Fox]

I am sure though, it's just you. If styling is your only criteria then you're not a true car enthusiast. The proof is in the driving at the end of the day.

It truly is "each to their own", at least I believe it is, but I chimed in with my own personal opinion of what I think of Renault cars and you try to imply that I'm not a true car enthusiast?! That's true keyboard warrior/internet troll skills right there.

I couldn't care less if a Renault drove better than my Golf, or my GT-R, or if your ass looks better than my fiancées. I still wouldn't touch it.

[REXman]

It should say.. Doesn't need the front wheels to slip!!

[dave_r]

I am sure though, it's just you. If styling is your only criteria then you're not a true car enthusiast. The proof is in the driving at the end of the day.

So now styling isn't a valid criteria to be an enthusiast? Ease up!

I couldn't care less if a Renault drove better than my Golf, or my GT-R, or if your ass looks better than my fiancées. I still wouldn't touch it.

LOL that's one way to put it. +1 to hating the wierd styling of the frenchies.