Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[SilvrFoxX]

Some of the Golf R guys are complaining I've been giving the Polo GTI too much attention.
Cheers
WJ

not so much as complaining as confused.. this is a Glf V Golf thread.. not a Polo v Golf thread..but appreciate your posts none the less..

[sh|tbmxrider]

Some of the Golf R guys are complaining I've been giving the Polo GTI too much attention. Here's a local review from drive.com.au of the Golf R against the hero hatches:

White heat: Focus RS v WRX STI v Golf R

Volkswagen Golf R review | hot-hatches

If the Golf R ain't hard enough when compared against a Focus RS or STI ... Nothing a set of aftermarket coilovers and aftermarket adjustable sway bars wouldn't fix.

Cheers
WJ

Ahh, but then you aren't comparing stock v. stock...

[G-rig]

Ahh, but then you aren't comparing stock v. stock...

Good point, but only matters if you're not going to do any mods.

[GTI Go Karter]

I have just come from the car after running a test for the 0-100 times and im absolutly impressed with the time achieved:
Half a tank of fuel, & 20 degrees C outside.

With more of a colder morning this will surley improve again.



Bang for buck, its pretty good....

Could a GTi achieve this with even a stage III???

A GTI could not achieve that, but the GTI is not about drag times. It's about fun and very quick corner speeds and very fast switch back's, corner to corner. I test drove the S3 just to see what the Golf R would be like back in 2009. I then test drove the Golf R and I was shocked of the amount of understeer in both cars. I then test drove the GTI thinking it would be the same or even worse, but to my surprise, there was zero understeer. Let me say it again, ZERO understeer. Man, when you come deep into a corner and that rear end steps out like an AWD car and pulls you out ready for the next corner, at lighting speed, it's amazing! I dare anyone to go out there and test drive a MK6 GTI, its unreal. When I was doing my car shopping, I was very, very picky. It's fine to have oversteer, throw it into a corner and catch it on the other side of the corner, but understeer sucks. If your a drivers man and you want fun you go for vw GTI or bmw M3. If you your person that just want to beat other quick cars off the lights to the next set of lights get or live where it snows get a vw golf r / evo 10 / subaru sti. Have a look at motorsport F1 / V8' ****cars lol i like that bit or DTM all rear wheel drive , BTCC/mini challenge Front wheel drive . and awd are in rally dirt and snow and since we drive on tarmac on streets there is no fun with them at all besides launching of the lights .

[SilvrFoxX]

All fair comments, however I think fab _R was not saying that his mod was a complete whitewash of the GTI merely that the time that has been achieved was amazing and that the GTI with a much more ambitious chip and engine uplift wouldn't.

I will let the R owners submit their respective thoughts but if you have read the thread in its entirety you will find your views align with whitejames somewhat.. so I look forward to the subsequent posts

[WhiteJames]

Bfyb

I could buy a Golf R ... add a set of KW V3 or KW Comfort coilover suspension ... plus a small set of H&R solid adjustable sway bars or KW/Eibach sway bars (same product) ... and have change to go on a holiday compared to the price of a Focus RS, STI or EVO.

Straight from the factory floor, the STI and EVO appear to be sharper instruments with less inherent understeer. Adding a set of street coilovers and aftermarket sway bars will yield a marginal improvement in the STI, RS and EVO due to their more focussed chasiss tune.

The Golf R is factory tuned to be a softer Grand Tourer type of vehicle with greater bias towards understeer. Greater benefits can be had by fitting coilovers and sway bars on the Golf R as the factory chassis tune is softer than the EVO, STI or RS from the outset. In other words: you’re getting more value by fitting a sports coilover suspension to a Golf R than the other three makes of vehicle in terms of improvement in handling.

Cheers
WJ

[REXman]

I could buy a Golf R ... add a set of KW V3 or KW Comfort coilover suspension ... plus a small set of H&R solid adjustable sway bars or KW/Eibach sway bars (same product) ... and have change to go on a holiday compared to the price of a Focus RS, STI or EVO.

Really? A holiday to where exactly, the local park? My Golf R costs $68300 rrp driveway. A Focus RS is $59990 plus on roads. I don't think there is a holiday that involves leaving home for that.

agree with the STI and EVO though, man they have gotten pricey!

When the came out, a arc was about $12k cheaper, but you missed out on engine internals (such as forged pistons), gearbox, turbo size, suspension etc..

Now the difference is around $30k!!! And the differences are the aesthetics, gearbox and brakes!!

3G WRX and STI:
-same turbo (different housing for fitment)
-same fuel pump
-same pistons (right down to the part numbers) [no more forgies in the STI?!? Couldn't believe it either]
-extremely similar suspension settings (rear rates are the same)
- and the WRX has gained double synchros on the first 3 gears now.. The last point obviously its not the same as the six speed by no means, but people have happily run 350hp at the wheels on the 3G wry with no issues..

IT'S a classic case of making the halo model a money maker, off the image of the car from the 90s and 00s.

The EVO I don't know anything about as I never bought any of them so hence never got into those, all I can say is they don't look the part any more to me.

Also agree Golf R is soft tourer to a point, particularly when comparing it's handling characteristics to a STI/EVO.

[RichoR2]

All fair comments, however I think fab _R was not saying that his mod was a complete whitewash of the GTI merely that the time that has been achieved was amazing and that the GTI with a much more ambitious chip and engine uplift wouldn't.

I will let the R owners submit their respective thoughts but if you have read the thread in its entirety you will find your views align with whitejames somewhat.. so I look forward to the subsequent posts

Well, I'd love to post something as definitive as these conclusions drawn from owning a car versus test driving another, but my poor little snow lovin R has left me crying in the corner wishing for understeer relief. It's suddenly a crowded corner too, what with all the Rex and Evo drivers in here too... Oh hang on, I did own a MkGTI for 4 years. And now I own an R. Hmm...

[G-rig]

You can't really beat a Ford Focus RS in terms of fun. I think i'll get one next time and not worry about sidesteps/small upgrades.

[Pepe]

Santa: Can we please have a Golf R vs Everything else (except a Golf GTI) thread for Xmas?

[bcm]

With all due respect WJ you're talking left handed. You can buy a brand new manual Evo X in the low to mid 50s if you haggle. They are the ones you want in any case as the SST is prone to overheating when given a flogging, the SST cars weigh more and they cost more. There's a reason the RS is still a manual.

I had KW Variant 3's on my first Evo 9 and gained a second a lap from a mid 50s lap on the short track at Barbagallo from that change alone. If you've done any sort of motorsport you'll understand that a second is a substantial improvement from a single change.

[Mountainman]

Santa: Can we please have a Golf R vs Everything else (except a Golf GTI) thread for Xmas?

Here you are:

Golf R man - $49990 1476kg, 188kw, 330nm, claimed 0-100 5.9 secs, "Wheels"10/2010 test 0-100 6.63 secs, 0-400m 14.6 secs
Subaru WRX man - $39990 1455kg, 195kw, 343nm, claimed 0-100 5.3secs, "Wheels"01/2009 test 0-100 5.9 secs, 0-400m 13.9 secs
Subaru STI hatch man - $61990 1520kg, 221kw, 407nm, claimed 0-100 4.9 secs, "Wheels"12/2009 test 0-100 5.6 secs, 0-400m 13.7 secs

Which performance-wise makes an R slower than a $10,000 cheaper WRX as you would expect with more weight and less power, but as you know it isn't all the story and I know which one I'd take to own and use every day. And besides, it seems everyone on this forum into modding just like those on the WRX forums?

[Corey_R]

Pfft. Sif use Golf GTI/R manual times. The Golf GTI/R manuals suck. It's as if Volkswagen haven't bothered with it because the DSG is so great.

If we change the above to a Golf R DSG, the cost goes up by only $2500 (and back down by $1500 if you pick the 3 door instead of door), the weight goes up by 20kg, and the claimed acceleration goes down to 5.7 second. However, the tested acceleration, depending on which magazine performed it, would put it at between the two WRX's to better than the STI - if the STI is still a manual. If the STI is the Auto, then that's slower than the WRX, so Golf R DSG then wins out big time.


But yes. VW's manual gearboxes = big weakness. (At least when it comes to acceleration times)

[ethosguy]

This post isn't exactly GTI V's R but maybe that is a too narrow constraint.

There's a $30+K gulf between the contenders which gives scope for mods to turn the OE spec into your prefered drive.

I've got the WRX + suspension, brakes, inlet, computer, exhaust and I'm very fussy about my wheel alignment settings.

All reputable parts - not the lowest prices either. I looked into a 2.5 WRX when they were released and almost laughed at how bad it was compared to my car! Under sprung & damped, dull power, even more nasty plastics inside.

I decided to keep what I had. My car might not be to everyones tastes, bit hard, bit loud. But it handles (better), still grips and pulls well with far less lag than stock. I spent close to $10k sorting it. But it still, ultimately it predominantly understeers: Never been truely statisfied. I want 'power on' settling on the outside rear wheel kind of balance. Not turn in, power on/off jigger the brakes hunt for cornering balance...

The Focus RS, nice heritage, (mosthighly rated, only relevant?) front driver out there but tacky, expensive with limited availability (for now). and FWD.

Not keen on an STi, expensive, nasty interior materials. A strong contender in dynamics but I've had a soured new car experience with my Subaru and a delightful one with our Tiguan (2yrs in). Maybe a low K used one, if I'm brave or stupid?

New wide track WRX...doesn't have the necessary AWD system to shuffle torque to the rear so I've scratched that idea; maybe I should go for a test drive anyway?

Golf GTI is a delightful car but FWD so ultimately it is traction limited, IMO.

Evo X, too expensive but I wasn't aware they would haggle so far. Still, nasty detailing.

So the R with VW fit & finish credentials, low hassle power upgrade options, and again low cost AWD tuning options I can have a very neat drivers car with class and practicality for far less ($$$ not time) than what else is on the market. I'm planning 5 door manual, ACC, leather APR Stage 1 and Haldex controller. I might be swayed into a DSG. I'm asuming with wheel alignment and Haldex controller I can find a chassis balance to my liking.

...Oh, one more very seldom discussed point. Driving position.
The VW's let me have straighter legs (6'1" long legs) without having to sit too upright or too much reach for the steering wheel. Nothing else gets close (even with reach adjustments) to thier ergos. In the day and age of airbags, ANCAP, and insurance I not prepared to change the steering wheel/pedal relationship to my preference thorough mods.

No easy tow bar options has given me cause to think hard about my use patterns and stalled the idea.

Tweeked S3, appealing but probably too expensive even low use used units. Probably lower risk than a used STi and more practicle. Will accept a towbar.

Golf R is ATM the strongest package/compromise for my requirements & coin.

[Capercat]

Is all this DSG 0-100 times in reference to Launch Control being activated?