Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[Corey_R]

Well, I guess one of the reasons for making the EA888 engine was to cut costs, so whilst there were a number of good improvements, it's not surprising to find that there is some major reason that it hasn't been used for the top end performance models yet.
I know that there was reports of one or two of the GTI's being used at the recent driver training having oil issues, but I dont' know full details of it.

I'd love to understand more about this type of thing, and whta exactly a PCV system is and what "oil catch cans" do and whether they're any benefit to this type of issue - but it's going above my mechanical understanding

[Guy_H]

There is a lot to the PCV systems & good / bad points about them, they are totally different on both motors, so each needs a different solution & to stay legal, they have to vent back into the intake (which can add to carbon build up over time).

Catch cans can help (only legal is plumbed as above) but with the TSI engine & the 100ml per lap thing, it has to have a one way dump back to the sump. Otherwise it would fill up in a very short period.

[AdamD]

Apart from internal strength (the FSI motor is stronger), the oil delivery system & the "separate" oil sump on the new motor will not cope with reasonable G forces & supply oil to the bearings.

Interesting that you mention the EA113 is stronger - information posted by WhiteJames in this post today seems to contradict that. Or perhaps the answer is that the 113 is stronger in some respects, and the 888 stronger in others?

At any rate - in your experience would you say that this oil consumption issue would only be a problem under sustained high-g conditions as seen on a track?

Although I'm not going to track my car, I am interested to understand the options available for improving the engine's oil delivery (and cooling) mechanisms.

[dave_r]

Interesting that you mention the EA113 is stronger - information posted by WhiteJames in this post today seems to contradict that. Or perhaps the answer is that the 113 is stronger in some respects, and the 888 stronger in others?

Not having a go at WJ but it might be the difference of theory vs practical experience. The new engines sound great on paper but are a new quantity in comparison.

[Ryan_R]

Is the TSI engine mentioned above the one used in the 118 Golf? If so, would upgrading to Stage 1 (APR) and going for a long spirited drive potentially cause problems?

[Corey_R]

No, the discussion here is based on the EA888 TSI engine, which is the engine found in the MK6 GTI and some Audi's, vs the older EA113 "TFSI" engine which was found in the MK5 GTI/Pirelli, MK6 R, Scirocco R and Audi S3/TT-S

[MACCAA]

The oil consumption problem at Wakefield only occured in [one] very high G-force left hand corner,at the bottom of the hill[the Fish hook]
If you don't track your car I seriously doubt you'll ever know the difference-and if you do track it,just check the oil level regularly on the day and all will be OK.
It was on cars with semi slicks generating high G-forces,and only occured mildly on road tyres when being driven by Luffy....
I don't think too many of us will be going 'round corners as fast as he does on the track...

[Guy_H]

Len is right, not a concern for a road car, but a car that see's track time - the owners need to be aware & keep on top of it. Nothing worse than going through turn 1 at QLD raceway at ~ 140kmph & having the oil light suddenly come on

On the engine strength's, take it from me, VW Motorsport in Germany & a certain US based team that runs MK5 & MK6 GTI's on the differences / strengths & weaknesses.

[WhiteJames]

When it comes to the PCV valve ... Wikipedia is your friend with an easy explanation. See link:

PCV valve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anything that vents the noxious gases directly into the atmosphere is a no no - bad for the environment.

The two tiered oil pan with honeycomb insert to prevent oil churning during agressive driving also adds strength to motor crankcase - see excerpt from Audi Self-Study EA888 TSI program.

Service Training

Self-Study Program

The Volkswagen 2.0 Litre
Chain-Driven TSI Engine

Oil Pan
The oil pan consists of two sections.
The upper section is made of an aluminum alloy
(AlSi12Cu) and reinforces the crankcase through a
bedplate effect. It also houses the oil pump.
The upper section is bolted to the crankcase and
sealed with a liquid sealant.
The bottom section is made of sheet steel (deep
drawn, punched, and catalytically coated). It houses
Oil Level Sensor G12 and the drain plug.
The bottom section is bolted to the upper section
and sealed with a liquid sealant.
The oil pan has an integral honeycomb insert made
of polyamide to prevent oil churning when the
vehicle is driven aggressively.

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Top of EA888 TSI motor

Similar thing with the top of the motor re: strength. Cost cutting does not mean cutting on quality materials, but making the motor build process simplified.

Service Training

Self-Study Program

The Volkswagen 2.0 Litre
Chain-Driven TSI Engine

The 4-valve cylinder head is cast from aluminum
alloy. Intake and exhaust valves are actuated by roller
cam followers supported by hydraulic valve lifters.

The intake and exhaust camshafts are chain-driven.
The variable timing of the intake camshaft is
accomplished through the INA camshaft adjustment
system (page 11).

The cylinder head cover adds support by acting as a
ladder frame and does not have to be disassembled
to remove the cylinder head.

The diagonal opening and sealing face simplifies
drive chain installation.

Cheers
WJ

[REXman]

Similar thing with the top of the motor re: strength. Cost cutting does not mean cutting on quality materials, but making the motor build process simplified.



Cheers
WJ

I agree the one does not mean the other. Like the interiors for example.. Some say that the MKVI was supposed to be a cost cutting excercise, but according to many publications (and some owners) the MKVI has the better made and better presented interior. I agree after sitting in an MK V.

In saying that, its the beauty of the MK V that got me onto/into Golfs and VW.. never glanced at them for a second, before that beautful piece of automobile .

[triode12]

In the past couple of weeks we have learnt why VW (and Audi) don't use the new "EA888" motor for any of their "top end" performance models (Golf R & S3, Scirocco R) nor do they use it for Motorsport.

Apart from internal strength (the FSI motor is stronger), the oil delivery system & the "separate" oil sump on the new motor will not cope with reasonable G forces & supply oil to the bearings.

I'm sure this will be addressed in future generations of the motor.

SO the older 113 engine is stronger! The rumours were right after all.
I wonder if certain MKVI GTI owners (who have been putting down the 113 engine) will eat their words now.

[triode12]

I still have to disagree on this point and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Better presented perhaps (more bling) but not better made - the quality of the plastic is IMO of a lower grade and rattles still plague the new car.

I agree the one does not mean the other. Like the interiors for example.. Some say that the MKVI was supposed to be a cost cutting excercise, but according to many publications (and some owners) the MKVI has the better made and better presented interior. I agree after sitting in an MK V.

In saying that, its the beauty of the MK V that got me onto/into Golfs and VW.. never glanced at them for a second, before that beautful piece of automobile .

[WhiteJames]

Speaking of environmental creditials - Green Car Congress on sustainable mobility indicates that it takes 1.2 seconds for the EA888 KO3 turbo to spool to max torque as opposed to 1.7 seconds for the KO3 in the EA113 motor. This relates back to the four lobe cam, new Bosch fuel pump, new six hole injectors in addition to having the manifold incorporated into the turbo on the EA888 motor. This is evident in how the EA888 motor in the GTI manages to cover 80-120kph sprint to within 0.2 secs of the Golf R and EVO X. That's without variable cam lift tech. See link:

Green Car Congress: Audi Expands Application of the 1.8 TFSI Engine to the A4 and A5 Lines

A water-cooled type K03 turbocharger manufactured by Borg Warner charges the cylinders. Its turbine housing is integrated together with the elbow in a single module made of high-alloy grey cast iron. An optimized turbine wheel improves the response characteristics at lower engine speeds. At an engine speed of 2000 rpm, the 1.8 TFSI needs just 1.2 seconds to build up its peak torque of 250 Nm. The predecessor engine, a 1.8-liter unit with manifold injection, needed 1.7 seconds to develop its 225 Nm.

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Heating up and Cooling down.

The new EA888 TSI motor is designed to have the bore and piston/piston rings expand at the same rate to ensure that one doesn't wear the other out. This can be a problem with aftermarket engine builders that put in super hard rings, only to find that the bore linning is too soft, or vice versa. Audi worked in conjunction with steel mills to find the best combination of bore metal and piston/piston ring material to ensure both heat up and cool down at the same rate. This should ensure longevity of the EA888 motor.

Cheers
WJ