Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[hooba]

The cruise control, when decreased in single digits with separate prongs on the stalk, km/h reverts up to the 5th digit when going down to the zero digit (i.e. 85 – 84 – 83 – 82 – 81 - 80 – 85) – only a minor concern.

I've had a similar experience however today I tested your theory and wasn't able to replicate it. The prong on the stalk is sensitive, one quick press and it drops a km, however if you hold it for more than a fraction of a second it sets the cruise to the current speed of the car. I'd say what has happened is that you've cycled down from 85 quickly, and on the 6th press have accidentally held it for a fraction too long and set it at 85 which was the current speed of the car.

As for the Clio, it's tough to live with as a daily due especially in around town to the peaky nature of the engine. Great fun for short blasts, but not much fun when you just want to cruise and take it easy.

[G-rig]

I've had a similar experience however today I tested your theory and wasn't able to replicate it. The prong on the stalk is sensitive, one quick press and it drops a km, however if you hold it for more than a fraction of a second it sets the cruise to the current speed of the car. I'd say what has happened is that you've cycled down from 85 quickly, and on the 6th press have accidentally held it for a fraction too long and set it at 85 which was the current speed of the car.

The MK6 is a bit different. When cruise control is enabled, each + or - click increases or decreases by 1km respectively. The MK5 was more of a 'hold it down' approach without the set increments.

Forgot to mention that the auto wipers seem a bit erratic. Tend to be set off more often when it's obviously not raining, not sure if they have changed something since the MK5.

[hooba]

The MK6 is a bit different. When cruise control is enabled, each + or - click increases or decreases by 1km respectively.

Agreed, my testing on the MK6 today found that the - click is very time sensitive and will revert to current speed as the setting if held for a fraction too long.

[G-rig]

'set' and 'resume' still work as before, haven't experienced what you're describing yet (I don't think).

[rider007]

I thought I recognised that road James. So they've put a speed camera just over the border gate crossing as you drop down into Murwillumbah from QLD via Numinbah Valley?. Bastards, it's been a while since I've driven that stretch, I'll have to be a bit careful now. Problem is the bikes there on a weekend which have been causing a few accidents. Going down that windy road is a good test of the ABS, ESC and suspension especially after some heavy rain due to streams and water washing acroos the road and at floodways.

[aRedFastCar]

Great review if I understood half of what you said.Thats a compliment.I have a R32 (flashed and cold air) and wifey has a standard Pirelli GTi 5 door.Want the new R real bad after driving it.Point is the R32 is soooo good I NEVER want to get rid of it.The solution was obvious to me but not so to lovely spouse.Sell the GTi, buy the R for me and she inherits the R32.Everybody wins and I keep my beloved R32 in the stable.R is arriving 12th december 2010.Anyone wants a Black GTi Pireeli with 10,000km let me know.

[Dubya]

Drove an R (DSG) for the first time today. Bit of a beast.

Like most performance cars it's one that mostly rewards a decent jab of the throttle, without which, and around town, and when driven within its limits, as most cars are on the road, there's not sufficient difference between it and the GTI for mine. Didn't like the hesitation of the DSG from rest much either.

With an eye to more sustainable motoring, the GTI, weighing less, with 155kw and using just 7.2l/100 and providing at least an extra second or so of accelerative pleasure on the way to the legal speed limit is it for me . . . and at ~$10k less too (as I am not keen on the larger wheels, PDC, tinting or Xenons).

Call me a wowser but I felt lucky enough when Mrs Dubya canned the GT diesel we had on order (too neck snapping when the turbo cut in) and opted for the GTI - the R would just be a bridge too far! And it really is hard to get the benefit of these higher performance cars on the mostly city roads on which I drive with their relatively low and zealously enforced speed limits.

While I do like the idea of AWD, the weight penalty does impact performance and overall efficiency, especially around town where one is often taking off from rest.

That said, I don't think the improvement, especially in terms of efficiency, that the R represents over the R32 can be easily overstated.

[AlpineM3E92]

Drove an R (DSG) for the first time today. Bit of a beast.

Like most performance cars it's one that mostly rewards a decent jab of the throttle, without which, and around town, and when driven within its limits, as most cars are on the road, there's not sufficient difference between it and the GTI for mine. Didn't like the hesitation of the DSG from rest much either.

With an eye to more sustainable motoring, the GTI, weighing less, with 155kw and using just 7.2l/100 and providing at least an extra second or so of accelerative pleasure on the way to the legal speed limit is it for me . . . and at ~$10k less too (as I am not keen on the larger wheels, PDC, tinting or Xenons).

Call me a wowser but I felt lucky enough when Mrs Dubya canned the GT diesel we had on order (too neck snapping when the turbo cut in) and opted for the GTI - the R would just be a bridge too far! And it really is hard to get the benefit of these higher performance cars on the mostly city roads on which I drive with their relatively low and zealously enforced speed limits.

While I do like the idea of AWD, the weight penalty does impact performance and overall efficiency, especially around town where one is often taking off from rest.

Dub I think you are pretty right re the slightly baulky feeling off the mark, having owned a MKV GTI, MKV R32 and a currently a TTS all with DSG I concurr. That is one of the key reasons we have this time opted for the manual in the R, hey... cheaper and less sensitive off the mark.

PDC is awesome, saves those embarrasing moments with low lying logs in carparks and also a safety benefit with small people and children, the xenons are best, once you have driven at night with them you won't want anything else ever.

As you say though, if you have jumped from a GTD up to a GTI you have to stop somewhere otherwise before you know it you will be buying an R8

[AlpineM3E92]

Great review if I understood half of what you said.Thats a compliment.I have a R32 (flashed and cold air) and wifey has a standard Pirelli GTi 5 door.Want the new R real bad after driving it.Point is the R32 is soooo good I NEVER want to get rid of it.The solution was obvious to me but not so to lovely spouse.Sell the GTi, buy the R for me and she inherits the R32.Everybody wins and I keep my beloved R32 in the stable.R is arriving 12th december 2010.Anyone wants a Black GTi Pireeli with 10,000km let me know.

aRFC, decisions decisions.

Have you seen the Pirelli for sale in Canberra at the moment on carsales $50k (yellow, hmmmm) nav and sensors never registered with only 93kms on the odometer

perhaps a bit of local Canberra competition (black is much better and that will impact many buyers decisions anyways)

good luck with the sale (do you want to buy a black TTS instead I know someone who is selling one at the moment).

[Dubya]

Dub I think you are pretty right re the slightly baulky feeling off the mark, having owned a MKV GTI, MKV R32 and a currently a TTS all with DSG I concurr. That is one of the key reasons we have this time opted for the manual in the R, hey... cheaper and less sensitive off the mark.

And it is also satisfying using clutch and gear shift together to change gears as smoothly as possible, although I did enjoy the pronounced blat from the R's exhaust as it up-changed under full throttle . . . just reached 60km/h too quickly to enjoy it for long . . . on a winding country road it would be much better. I wonder if the manual does that too.

PDC is awesome, saves those embarrasing moments with low lying logs in carparks and also a safety benefit with small people and children, the xenons are best, once you have driven at night with them you won't want anything else ever.

I am a big fan of the RVC which at $500 I think should be mandatory on Golfs that already have the large format display fitted. On the other hand the beeps of PDC would take some getting used to for me. For now I am happy to remain in blissful ignorance of the benefits of Xenons!

As you say though, if you have jumped from a GTD up to a GTI you have to stop somewhere otherwise before you know it you will be buying an R8

Were money to cease to be an object I'd consider joining the R8 (R10?) queue but for now it's all about bang for buck and fuel efficiency plays on my mind too albeit for environmental rather than fiscal reasons.

[Corey_R]

For now I am happy to remain in blissful ignorance of the benefits of Xenons!

Yeah, this is a good strategy. I live in suburbia and had the Xenon on my MKV GTI. They were amazing. Having to go back to "standard lights" in my Polo GTI was a BIG adjustment. I wouldn't purchases a non-Xenon car by choice anymore.

[Tux]

Yeah, this is a good strategy. I live in suburbia and had the Xenon on my MKV GTI. They were amazing. Having to go back to "standard lights" in my Polo GTI was a BIG adjustment. I wouldn't purchases a non-Xenon car by choice anymore.

I had Xenons on my Mini, and while I did like them, I haven't missed them on the GTI.

[Prodigy]

Yeah, this is a good strategy. I live in suburbia and had the Xenon on my MKV GTI. They were amazing. Having to go back to "standard lights" in my Polo GTI was a BIG adjustment. I wouldn't purchases a non-Xenon car by choice anymore.

I have to agree, i'm on to my second borrowed bunky without xenon's since selling the rex and i am often checking to see if i've actually switched the headlights on at night due to the standard lights being so bad.

[WhiteJames]

MOTOR Magazine 'Hot Tuner' Videos - APR Golf R and APR Golf GTI

In respect to the differences in the handling of the Golf R –v- Golf GTI:

The Mark 6 GTI, although a lighter vehicle than the Golf R, has a greater proportion of its front to rear balance weighted towards the front – like a lead tipped arrow. This does affect handling to a degree – more to the point the lift off oversteer. It makes for harder work on the driver’s part, but sometimes that half the fun.

Viewing the videos of the APR tuned Golf R and APR tuned Golf GTI on 2 wet laps that comprising part of the MOTOR Magazine September 2010 ‘Castrol Hot Tuner’ Edition:

YouTube - APR Stage 3 Golf GTI MK6 Motor Magazine Hot Tuner Challenge 2010 -

YouTube - APR Stage 3 Golf R Motor Magazine Hot Tuner Challenge 2010 -

The difference between the APR tuned Golf R and APR tuned Golf GTI in the MOTOR Mag EC video is much more stark in my opinion. Reason being:

The main point of difference is that the Golf R runs H&R sway bars and the Golf R APR (aka Hotchkis) sway bars. The H&R sway bars have 2 hole adjustability and the APR bars 3 hole adjustability. The APR sway bars have a greater range of adjustability than the H&R bars by virtue of APR’s 3 hole settings. The rear of the APR sway bar can be set firmer than the H&R rear sway bar (GTI or Golf R/R32).

The video depicts both the APR tuned Golf R and Golf GTI running to much rear bar for the Eastern Creek track in the wet conditions. The lift off oversteer on trailing brake is evident in both vehicles – with the GTI suffering much worse from lift off oversteer than the Golf R. This cost both Golf R and Golf GTI time in the wet conditions. Way too much spring rate in the rear end of both vehicles.

I’ll take a punt and express an opinion that the GTI was tuned with the rear APR on full hard (3/3) with the front bar on medium setting (2/3) – this makes the GTI way too stiff in rear end in terms of sway bar spring rate relative to the Golf R.

Alternatively; The Golf R appears to have its H&R sway bars set on front soft (1/2) and rear hard (2/2), also creating lift off oversteer on approach to apex, but no where near the degree of the APR sway bar set up in the Golf GTI. The H&R sway bars a more of a Nurburgring fast flowing type of sway bar. The APR sway bars cover the whole gambit of super tight Auto-X to faster flowing depending on sway bar settings front and rear.

In the past, I have sampled a GTI and R32 with same set of KW coilovers and H&R sway bars – the R32 had better balance front to rear, but the difference was not stark as shown in the YouTube videos for Golf R and Golf GTI – both GTI and R32 handled in a very similar way, with point of difference being that the GTI turned in better but had a greater tendency to lift off oversteer – but nothing like what I see in the YouTube videos.

I have also compared two Mark 5 GTI’s with same KW coilovers – one with H&R bars (my old MKV) and another with the Hotichkis (APR) sway bars (27mm/27mm hollow from memory) with APR front set on medium and rear on hard. The APR rear sway bar set on full hard was too stiff for public roadways imo – okay for hill climbs or auto-X where speeds are generally low and plenty of rear wheel slip is required, but too stiff at lower speeds of the public roadways.

Had the Golf GTI by APR in the MOTOR Mag test run H&R sway bars front and rear or alternatively; had the APR sway bars set on full soft, I reckon the times of the APR GTI would be closer again to the Golf R, the GTI would be less prone to oversteer on corner entry.

The APR Golf GTI and APR Golf GTI clocked impressive times regardless of there stiff dry track tune; if the sway bars for both GTI and Golf R were set on full soft for the wet conditions, times would further improve imo.

Looks like the Rennenhaus genuine Volkswagen Racing coilovers are just rebadged KW coilovers. The Peak Performance Audi S3 also ran H&R sway bars as per APR Golf R – but Bilstein PSS10 progressive rate springs most likely let it down in the corner speed on the track – the JIC-Cross appears to be a linear rate spring, which is what you’d want for the track, with the Volkswagen Racing (KW) coilovers somewhere in between.

Cheers
WJ

[Corey_R]

Had the Golf GTI by APR in the MOTOR Mag test run H&R sway bars front and rear or alternatively; had the APR sway bars set on full soft, I reckon the times of the APR GTI would be closer again to the Golf R, the GTI would be less prone to oversteer on corner entry.

Dude - there was only 1.6 seconds between the Golf R and Golf GTI in the Motor Tuner Challenge. The Golf R beat EVERYTHING, including Porsche GT3s and Lotuses etc. The fact that on an obviously extremely wet track the GTI with its FWD managed to get within 1.6 seconds is absolutely awesome.

I know you own the GTI and like to justify your purchase of it, but seroiusly...