Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[G-rig]

Will you be tracking yours Sharkie?

Also which is more fun to drive your Polo or Tig?

[sharkablue]

With you 100% there mate... My wife used to work at a race circuit so I got to spend a lot of time there. The number of blokes with the flashest of cars who couldn't drive a nail was incredible. I was glad though they went to the track to do their fast driving because they'd be a menace on public roads.

Well said, I have nothing against drivers going to race tracks, and I think the state and federal governments should make it easier for drivers to go to these places to race their cars, which takes these people off the public roads.

But at the same time, I cant understand the people in this thread with the whole GTI vs R ****. for 99% of the time which is on public roads, both cars will perform pretty much exactly the same. The GTI has the advantage imo as it is slightly cheaper and uses less fuel (not that the R uses that much anyway, but for the sake of the argument). The R only ever really comes into effect on a race track... which for most people will never happen.

I think this R launch hype is getting to people.

[emack]

..............................especially those that own a GTI

[sharkablue]

As usual this thread has degenerated in uselessness .....

Nobody said anything about a R v GTI on the track and none of posts related directly to that ... in fact I have been at pains to show how much better the R is over the GTI ON THE ROAD ....

Bottom line is .....

If you are an enthusiast driver the R wins by a significant margin ......

If you purely wanted bragging rights and couldn't really care about how much better the 1 is over the other .... the R, being the top of the Golf range, is the only 1 to get ....

If you bought a GTI (for whatever reason) and now want to justify that position see the previous 2 points .... .... no amount of justifcation will get you past those 2 fundamentals ....

haha im not trying to justify anything, I personally cant afford a Golf R, so the GTI is the best thing I can afford and im very very very happy with the purchase. Good luck with the Golf R Sharkie.

But as I said ultimately on a public road I think 95% of VWA's customers will be at pains to see the difference between the GTI and R. As you said it all comes down to braging rights and how much power they have between each other, which can only really be seen on a race track, which for most people will never happen.

I would use the argument against a WRX vs a STI, Ralliart vs a EVO etc etc.

If you can afford it, thats great! but for the people who cant afford the R, STI, EVO style of cars, their smaller brothers do just as good a job on public roads and day to day use. In some cases some might say they are easier to live with day to day.

After all I have read alot of reviews that have said, if you can only afford 1 car and want to have a great Day to day car but with great well balanced performance, the GTI is the winner there.

However some might recall the comparison of the R32 vs the 135 on Top Gear with Jeremy clarkson, and the R32 came out in front according to Jeremy.

It all comes down to what you want.

[Sharkie]

... for 99% of the time which is on public roads, both cars will perform pretty much exactly the same. The GTI has the advantage imo as it is slightly cheaper and uses less fuel (not that the R uses that much anyway, but for the sake of the argument). The R only ever really comes into effect on a race track... which for most people will never happen.

And again thats were you are incorrect ....

There isn't a single performance element ON THE ROAD where the R is not better than the GTI .... .... it is better in every single aspect .... traction, accelleration, braking, handling and any other you'd care to mention .... more importantly every 1 of those will enable you to better survive/escape an accident ON THE ROAD compared to GTI under the same conditions ....

and BTW fuel consumption is not a performance element, if thats important to you, you'd be better off in a GTD ....

and if you want to argue it on the basis of price then your'e also in the wrong thread ...

EDIT: it does not make the GTI a bad car by any means, its just less good than the R .... and I won't be buying either .... I'll be buying a blue BMW 135i (after Van is sorted) .... it is simply in a different league yet again ....

[G-rig]

But at the same time, I cant understand the people in this thread with the whole GTI vs R ****. for 99% of the time which is on public roads, both cars will perform pretty much exactly the same.

I think this R launch hype is getting to people.

Agree, everyone is getting carried away with the hype. Both are great cars and either would be good. If the budget allows it get the R so at least you know you have the best and can tell everyone.

I spend money getting the top of the range Golf R32 last time when a GTI would have been enough, and it will be enough this time too. Stock for stock the R32 is quite similar to the R.

Surprisingly the GTI is just as fun if not morso, and dont consider it a big downgrade. I also don't track the car and wouldn't get the most out of the R on the streets (even the GTI is very easy to speed in but the speeds aren't as high as what you'd have to do to get your thrills out of the R).

[sharkablue]

EDIT: it does not make the GTI a bad car by any means, its just less good than the R .... and I won't be buying either .... I'll be buying a blue BMW 135i (after Van is sorted) .... it is simply in a different league yet again ....

The 135i is an awesome machine. My mate got one in January and this weekend I have helped him chip the car to get 400bhp!!! its an insane car!!! I love it.

I was personally looking at getting the 125i with the M Sport Pack but ended up not being able to afford it, so the GTI it is!!!

But good luck with the 135i, you will not be disappointed, I can guarantee you that.

[G-rig]

Re: Golf R -v- Golf GTI

I think you'd be happy with a 135i sharkie, would be worth the bit extra over a highly spec'ed R. A basic R for 55k would be a good saving though, but can't realy beat BMW twin turbo six & RWD.

[Sharkie]

The 135i is an awesome machine. My mate got one in January and this weekend I have helped him chip the car to get 400bhp!!! its an insane car!!! I love it.

I was personally looking at getting the 125i with the M Sport Pack but ended up not being able to afford it, so the GTI it is!!!

But good luck with the 135i, you will not be disappointed, I can guarantee you that.

Thanks mate, the 135i is an awesome machine ....

To be honest I can fully understand the "best car I can afford principle" as I have been and am still there ... I have always purchased what I believed to be the best within budget, but have never let that cloud my perception upong the ranking order both in prestige and performance of what I'm buying .... (in contrast to some others here)

Applying that principle .... Is the 135i better than an M3? (and I'd love to buy another of those) ... by no means ... is it good/close enough considering what I'm paying ... YES

Same with my VWs in Australia .... was the Polo GTI that I bought 4.5years ago "better" than the Golf GTI .... by no means .... did I feel envious every time I stopped next to a Golf (even though once I'd finished with it, was on par performance wise)... yes, to some extent, but it was the best I could afford as a car for myself at the time .... its only recently that I've been able to afford a $80K car for myself and the best car for that money is the 135i ...

Does not change the fact that in this case the R is by far the better car overall, and the GTI the best value at $40K ....

if you're spending $60K+ on a GTI no amount of justifaction will help as come resale time a $60K R will be worth so much more ...

and to stir the pot some more .... do I believe a GTI (@$40K) to be better (and better value) than my wife's Tig ... No, not in any of the performance criteria I have for the road and certainly not in any of the "softer" criteria she has either .... do I like the image of the Tig over the GTI, not really either LOL

But yes, Greg, looking forward to the 135i once I'm past the Multivan purchase ....

[Ideo]

haha im not trying to justify anything, I personally cant afford a Golf R, so the GTI is the best thing I can afford and im very very very happy with the purchase. Good luck with the Golf R Sharkie.

But as I said ultimately on a public road I think 95% of VWA's customers will be at pains to see the difference between the GTI and R. As you said it all comes down to braging rights and how much power they have between each other, which can only really be seen on a race track, which for most people will never happen.

I would use the argument against a WRX vs a STI, Ralliart vs a EVO etc etc.

If you can afford it, thats great! but for the people who cant afford the R, STI, EVO style of cars, their smaller brothers do just as good a job on public roads and day to day use. In some cases some might say they are easier to live with day to day.

After all I have read alot of reviews that have said, if you can only afford 1 car and want to have a great Day to day car but with great well balanced performance, the GTI is the winner there.

However some might recall the comparison of the R32 vs the 135 on Top Gear with Jeremy clarkson, and the R32 came out in front according to Jeremy.

It all comes down to what you want.

I disagree. After going from AWD to FWD to RWD and back to AWD the R is a far better road car for all conditions than the GTI.

[sharkablue]

Does not change the fact that in this case the R is by far the better car overall, and the GTI the best value at $40K ....

if you're spending $60K+ on a GTI no amount of justifaction will help as come resale time a $60K R will be worth so much more ...

Personally I think from 40 to 50K the GTI is in its sweet spot. Once you go beyond that 50K price bracket on a GTI you should really be looking at the R or something else entirely.

Which is also the reason why my GTI will set me back about 50k once the bluetooth and tinting are done it, plus all the options I got.

DSG
Park Assist
Sunroof
Adaptive Chassis Control
18" Detroits
MDI
Reversing Camera

Full Size Euro Plates
Skoda Bluetooth kit
Window Tinting

[hooba]

I finally got to drive the R today, a nice new manual with less than 200kms on the clock. My initial impression as I gently drove away was that the interior has the same quality feel as the GTI, but is more muted and restrained. The interior difference really comes down to personal tastes.

Just as I'm starting to ponder whether it will be hard to tell the difference between the R and the GTI, an opportunity arises to stretch it legs. The first time you charge hard you know this is no GTI, and the sensation of the R coming on boost leaves you wondering whether someone has just yelled out "Punch it Chewie!". The last car that gave me the exact same sensation was a 135i.

On the subject of lag, yes it does feel like it has more lag than the GTI, but then again the R also comes along like a steam train. I found that taking off gently and driving it sedately, I had to be conscious of prodding the throttle a little bit more so as not to stall, however I think anybody who complains about lag down low being a issue has either been spoilt by diesels or by VW doing such a great job with its petrol engines. Anybody used to driving a modern Japanese four cylinder engine (especially Honda drivers) will find the bottom end of the R more than acceptable, to the point that I frequently found myself up shifting early on the R because there was enough grunt there from around 2200 rpm onwards.

Not only does it shove you back into the seat (leather in this case, very similar in feel to the leather GTI), but it has a beautiful growl from the engine that I just wanted to keep listening to. I'm not sure whether the R has the speaker, but the sound is addictive. Wind the window down and you'll also get treated to a classy turbo whistle.

Whilst the engine and drive train seem beautifully smooth, I did notice some drive train vibration coming through the clutch pedal and the centre console. Nothing of concern, and if anything it's in keeping with the personality of the beast.

The brakes on it felt very meaty and secure, and the car incredibly stable under hard braking. I take the car hard into my favourite corner, a tight 2nd gear 90 degree left hander that is wickedly off camber, sight the apex and hit it. Here the R catches me unaware, I was expecting mild understeer similar to the GTI which does such a great job at hiding the fact its FWD.

Suddenly the R, now right in the middle of its 2nd gear powerband and leaning hard on its outside tyres, produces this beautifully telegraphed oversteer dance. Even though I had left the electronic nannies on, it gave me just enough tail out to let me use a dab of opposite lock and leave me dreaming about whether I've got a future in the WRC. This thing is a proper AWD, and will conquer sales from the STI crowd.

Aside from the obvious AWD addition, mechanically the R feels like a GTI thats spent more time in the gym except for the gearbox which felt the same as the GTI one. On the GTIs that I've driven I've seen the oil temp rise has high as 109 degrees, on the R which was treated far more firmly, the highest I saw was 96 degrees. That and the fact that the temperatures seemed to drop far quicker than the GTIs leads me to believe that the R is running a far more serious cooling package.

I think the R is a better mouse trap, however for some people they might find it a bit too extreme. The R I drove already had deep scratches in its chin spoiler, and its raw personality that begs to be driven hard may tire some people who'll use it as a daily driver. However, the noise, the little things like those dancing blue needles, and the tail out handling at the extreme make this a very, very special car.

Is the R better than the GTI? IMHO yes, of that there is no doubt. Should GTI owners be concerned that they've bought the wrong car? That all depends on what $10K is worth to you, and whether you value all out blistering performance.

Me, I'm happy with my GTI, its a great car that will suit me perfectly, and I'm comfortable with the fact that its not the mightiest Golf in the jungle. The only time I think I will question why the 10 grand is still in my bank account will be when I go to my favourite corner and exit it without the tail powersliding out.

[flappa]

I agonised over this question for weeks. Do I put the money down for a new GTI or wait for the R to come ?

Haven't yet seen one in the flesh (have to go and see Phillip at Slaven), but even at this late stage I certainly could be persuaded to change. I like the very idea of the R and I think they look fabulous.

[G-rig]

This kind of sums it up:

Personally I think from 40 to 50K the GTI is in its sweet spot. Once you go beyond that 50K price bracket on a GTI you should really be looking at the R or something else entirely.

Mine was under 50k but a few k but also depends how much you want to spend. Can always get one next time when you can strike a better deal.

[Corey_R]

On the GTIs that I've driven I've seen the oil temp rise has high as 109 degrees, on the R which was treated far more firmly, the highest I saw was 96 degrees. That and the fact that the temperatures seemed to drop far quicker than the GTIs leads me to believe that the R is running a far more serious cooling package.

It sure does. When people do up their Golf GTI's, one of the common intercooler upgrades was to use the Audi S3's intercooler - which is the same one used in the R.