Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[Rob_R]

Soooo, WJ, you expect your dealership/VW to carry every single model in every single color combination, with every possible factory fitted accessory combination? I don't want to sound disrespectful, but "you are dreamin'"
There are at least two reasons why this never will happen:

1. you end up with a stockpile of cars no-one wants being dumped on the market dragging down the value of the brand (like FORD...
2. cars are not owned by the dealerships, but by the finance companies - ever since the last financial crisis getting stock financed has become harder & more expensive - a 60 day old car means all sorts of evil forces are unleashed to get rid of it

Seriously? No.....

Agreed. Saved me having to explain this point of view to WJ.

[WhiteJames]

Bundle

I'm aware that most floor stock is on finance and that finance rates can be a good deal higher than when GMAC was around. Unlike Ford, you're not going to find too many VW rental or fleet cars either, so resale should still be good. All I'm saying is that Volkswagen could look at bundles of options: Basic, Sports, Luxury and Sports/Luxury and forget about importing the 3 door. This may allievate some angst in terms of sourcing the correct vehicle and should cover most budgets and buyer preferences. In the States, they have an Autobahn Package with Sunroof, Leather and SatNav ... neither of these options are desirable for me. So why not have a Sports Pack in addition to an Autobahn Pack. Sports Pack could compromise: Bi Xenons, 18" Wheels, DCC, Driver Gear Sport Springs, and more aggresively tuned LSD.
Cheers.
WJ

[kaanage]

it is more about how quickly one can get a car to the edge of either the driver or the machine's capability.

For the rest of us the joy of the drive is somewhat different

So what is the source of the joy for you when driving the R? Simply sensing how far you are within the capability of the car while going fast?

[phantomcamel]

I am not totally disagreeing with you WJ, your comments have some merit.

But - (there is always a "but")... some people just like 18", so you we are going to package the car with all the sports options & all they want is to look "cool" and have to pay extra for options they never use?
The great thing about Volkswagen having taken over from INCHCAPE as the importer is that you have more options how to personalize your car without forking out extra money for stuff you didn't want in the first place!

[kaanage]

So given that cars are built to order, why isn't ACC available for Comfortlines any more?

[WhiteJames]

The great thing about Volkswagen having taken over from INCHCAPE as the importer is that you have more options how to personalize your car without forking out extra money for stuff you didn't want in the first place!

I think this is an important point. The recent autocar.co.uk magazine I purchase on iPad has a great article on the state of the european motor industry and how they need to close down something like 30 factories all across europe (east & west) out of 220 factories in total. The article goes on about how VW, Audi, BMW and Merc are doing so well. It comes down to many factors, but one important factor is pricing of options. More to the point expensive options. If you were to bundle the Sports options I mentioned earlier ... the springs would cost next to nothing, LSD is a software upgrade away (next to nothing) and the rest could be had for much cheaper as part of a package ... but this would impact on pricing and profits (think Audi and BMW options list) ... this is also an issue with option by option builds. A Sports option pack could be had for $3,500 hypothetically speaking, rather than option by option cost (2K, 1.5K, 1K, 1.2K) ... both Volkswagen Australia wins to a degree as they sell more option, albeit at less margin, and the consumer wins as they could have a host of options for cheaper. BTW ... recent article from Bob Lutz also rates Hyundai and the no. 1 anatognist for all car makers.
Cheers.
WJ[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 10:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------

[bluefrog]

- cornering: until I get to know the Octy's limits, the R is way more fun around corners .. get to do some truly crazy stuff

This is what I don't get - just going fast isn't that fun to me. I like to feel that I'm doing more than turning the wheel and having the car point exactly where I want it if I'm having a play.

Greg I spose everyone has a slightly different definition of fun .. Yours involves skill. Mine doesn't.

The feeling of cornering at speed in the R (still well within the limits of the car's awd and upgraded tyres, for anyone who cares to have a sudden whinge-session about DD safety), which would possibly result in a written-off car if I was stupid enough to do so in the Octy, being my usual DD, ... tends to be, at the very least, a little exhilarating!

[Candyman]

Golf R wins

Fewer letters to debadge (god, wash my mouth out, sacrilege)

Both are pretty good cars and punch above their weight.

Peace

[bluefrog]

Fewer letters to debadge (god, wash my mouth out, sacrilege)

lol

Golf R wins

not for my DD it doesn't, hehe, as long as the road is dry

[phantomcamel]

[QUOTE=WhiteJames;797335] BTW ... recent article from Bob Lutz also rates Hyundai and the no. 1 anatognist for all car makers.
Cheers.
WJ[COLOR="Silver"]

TOYOTA has recognized the HYUNDAI threat for some time. I worked for them briefly - they have a whole department ("war room") dealing with the threat! Hyundai is much improved & chipping away at Toyotas heals - VW would be well advised to take notice

[brimway]

And to the delight of Hyundai, the current Kia offerings are making sales volume inroads aswell.

[SilvrFoxX]

So what is the source of the joy for you when driving the R? Simply sensing how far you are within the capability of the car while going fast?

In a nutshell yes, sure you can imply a lot from that but it is that sense that defines what the driving experience is. This would explain the popularity of the Merc 63 and the BMW M series, both extreme cars but the feeling within is controlled and planted.

[Candyman]

In a nutshell yes, sure you can imply a lot from that but it is that sense that defines what the driving experience is. This would explain the popularity of the Merc 63 and the BMW M series, both extreme cars but the feeling within is controlled and planted.

Also, specifically related to this, my wife continually remarks how much more safe and relaxed she feels in the R versus our MKV GTI.

Not directly fun you might say but a happy wife is fun

[SilvrFoxX]

Also, specifically related to this, my wife continually remarks how much more safe and relaxed she feels in the R versus our MKV GTI.

Not directly fun you might say but a happy wife is fun

Same for mine, she decided between the 2 offerings from VW, how good is that

[AdamD]

Golf R wins

Fewer letters to debadge (god, wash my mouth out, sacrilege)

Don't even joke about that! *runs out to the garage to check badges are in place*

In a nutshell yes, sure you can imply a lot from that but it is that sense that defines what the driving experience is. This would explain the popularity of the Merc 63 and the BMW M series, both extreme cars but the feeling within is controlled and planted.

I'm not sure I'd describe a C63 as planted per-se; those things can be ridiculously lairy and tail-happy. Still, an incredibly engaging and satisfying drive. I'd be more inclined to draw parallels between the R and, say, an Audi RS5 - hugely competent and very fast, but not so dramatic or wild. It all comes down to your personal driving style as to what you prefer. Journos certainly seem to prefer the BMW and Mercedes, but I have to say I see a lot more RS5s on the road...

The R is undoubtedly quicker and more relaxed at going hard point to point - very fuss free. The GTI, particularly if tuned, can be much more of a handful (albeit fairly safely so) while being nowhere rear as quick unless being driven by a pro. I personally enjoy the thrill of being smooth and fast rather than just going faster than everyone else, but I know plenty of others who don't see the appeal. I love having to pay real attention to throttle application, and controlling the car as the (lower) weight transfers on entry and exit - it's a real challenge to get right.

I think the GTI would be seen as more of an on-par performance alternative to an R if it were RWD and so appealed to the hard-core traditionalists. FWD has come a very long way in the last decade or so, but at the end of the day no amount of suspension tuning and clever diff electronics can overcome physics when you push beyond a certain point.