Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[WhiteJames]

Fast -v- Fun

The twins (BRZ/FT86) highlight an important issue relevant to all Volkswagen's. It is also made clear in the two earlier North American Golf R video reviews. Sports derivatives of hatchbacks are getting way too fast, and much less fun to drive. An often overlooked, but salient point, is driver satisfaction, rather than outright speed. Other than the Hard-Core Types and Corporate Sponsors seeking to take the title of 'Hot Tuner Award', you have to ask yourself this: Are Volkswagens, which includes both the GTI and Golf R, becoming more fun or less fun to drive. Once you've answered that question; then apply it in the context of driving on the public roadway. The 'twins' mark a paradigm shift towards fun, but not so fast. Additionally ... while I'm on the topic, the twins having Prius spec tyres and port & direction injection make that fun cheaper over the life of the ride ... with replacement tyres cheap as chips and no need/less need for carbon cleaning around the 90,000km mark. Cost of carbon cleaning negates the savings in fuel usage from direction injection imo.
Cheers.
WJ

[Candyman]

If the GTI is blue it gets the garage as white deserves the street

Not blue sadly though we did try and get one

Ended up getting Silver (was not my choice)

Good little car. Not as nice inside as the MKV we had and panel fit down a step but that is well known. NVH much better. Something in common with the R for a change

[SilvrFoxX]

Silver ... OMG

[Candyman]

Silver ... OMG

It's not too bad really. Bit of carnauba wax and the gloss highlight on the wheel arches is nice

I agree though, pretty bland. On a GTI with its less aggressive styling cf the R, just doesn't work but just between you and me.

The MKV we had could have carried it better.

Still, not unique like RB (yes I know, next time)

[bluefrog]

thought I'd add my 2ml to the mix:

I took the R and Octy for a back to back run last weekend on 60 - 80kph roads, and took notes once done.


R man - APR stage 1 (2012 update) + carbonio

v's

Octy dsg - Revo stage 1 + ITG + Milltek catback (nb. driven 100% manual mode)


I'm not comparing tunes here as I'm fairly confident that there's not a whole lot of difference between most stage one tunes. I'm comparing cars, and more specifically I'm comparing K03/K04.


now my primary aim is to enjoy my drive on a daily basis, ie. I really want to get my jollies out of driving 60 - 80kph roads because I spend 99.9% of my driving time on them.

verdict (specific to above criteria):

- acceleration to 80kph: TSI/K03 combo HANDS DOWN. I simply cannot stand the spool delay of the R (must admit I'm a bit over the slow gear changes too)

- cornering: until I get to know the Octy's limits, the R is way more fun around corners .. get to do some truly crazy stuff

- overtaking: both excellent, although the TSI/K03 can overtake a bit quicker @ 100kph, and fueling can keep up with demand!

- comfort: the R's high seats and good headroom are spectacular, but of course this makes the car higher.

[kaanage]

The twins (BRZ/FT86) highlight an important issue relevant to all Volkswagen's. It is also made clear in the two earlier North American Golf R video reviews. Sports derivatives of hatchbacks are getting way too fast, and much less fun to drive. An often overlooked, but salient point, is driver satisfaction, rather than outright speed. Other than the Hard-Core Types and Corporate Sponsors seeking to take the title of 'Hot Tuner Award', you have to ask yourself this: Are Volkswagens, which includes both the GTI and Golf R, becoming more fun or less fun to drive. Once you've answered that question; then apply it in the context of driving on the public roadway. The 'twins' mark a paradigm shift towards fun, but not so fast. Additionally ... while I'm on the topic, the twins having Prius spec tyres and port & direction injection make that fun cheaper over the life of the ride ... with replacement tyres cheap as chips and no need/less need for carbon cleaning around the 90,000km mark. Cost of carbon cleaning negates the savings in fuel usage from direction injection imo.
Cheers.
WJ

Good point about the driver involvement factor - hugely capable does not always equal fun. I know a golf MkV GTi owner who cancelled his order for a Golf R after driving his friend's one for an extended period. I find that pretty much all AWDs are in this boat vs 2WD cars - the greater amount of grip reduces the feeling of involvement (which is the fun part in my book) unless going irresponsibly fast. It was this same factor that made me buy a twin cylinder semi-sports motorbike vs a 600cc sports bike. James May recently made this very point on Top Gear when driving the Fiat Panda.

But the tyre factor is something that performance Golf owners could switch to if they were in that frame of mind and they could even have more fun on public roads with the lower grip due to the greater opportunity for approaching the tyre limits. But it isn't going to happen with the MORE mentality that grips most owners of these cars.

[AdamD]

thought I'd add my 2ml to the mix

Great insights, thanks for sharing! I've driven an Octavia RS wagon pretty hard over some fantastic Adelaide Hills backroads, and have to say, if I needed the capacity of a wagon, there'd be no other choice short of an RS4 Avant for me - I think it's a great car.

[bluefrog]

thought I'd add my 2ml to the mix:

I took the R and Octy for a back to back run last weekend on 60 - 80kph roads, and took notes once done.


R man - APR stage 1 (2012 update) + carbonio

v's

Octy dsg - Revo stage 1 + ITG + Milltek catback (nb. driven 100% manual mode)


I'm not comparing tunes here as I'm fairly confident that there's not a whole lot of difference between most stage one tunes. I'm comparing cars, and more specifically I'm comparing K03/K04.


now my primary aim is to enjoy my drive on a daily basis, ie. I really want to get my jollies out of driving 60 - 80kph roads because I spend 99.9% of my driving time on them.

verdict (specific to above criteria):

- acceleration to 80kph: TSI/K03 combo HANDS DOWN. I simply cannot stand the spool delay of the R (must admit I'm a bit over the slow gear changes too)

- cornering: until I get to know the Octy's limits, the R is way more fun around corners .. get to do some truly crazy stuff

- overtaking: both excellent, although the TSI/K03 can overtake a bit quicker @ 100kph, and fueling can keep up with demand!

- comfort: the R's high seats and good headroom are spectacular, but of course this makes the car higher.

Great insights, thanks for sharing! I've driven an Octavia RS wagon pretty hard over some fantastic Adelaide Hills backroads, and have to say, if I needed the capacity of a wagon, there'd be no other choice short of an RS4 Avant for me - I think it's a great car.

no worries Adam ... one day an RS6 wagon for me .. one day, hehe

[WhiteJames]

While everyone is in ah 'beatching mode' ... my GTI is coming up to 2 years old and is performing better than ever (with exception of interior platsics/chassis flex squeaks). Recent interstate trip yield 6.6 litres per 100km fuel economy, which is great for turbo four. When I sold the MKV for a good price, making it a no brainer to purchase a MK6 Golf, I had to wait 6 mths and 1 week for the new MK6 GTI to arrive with options I desired (mainly sports options that later turned out to be std options on the Golf R ... go figure). In the interim, I purchased a motorcycle to keep me mobile for that 6 mth period. I don't anticipate on waiting another 6 mths for a preferred order spec Golf of any sort. Perhaps I should put the onus on Volkswagen Australia or my Local Dealer to ensure that there is always at least one example of the spec & variant I want in the Golf range, should I chose to purchase. Like ordering a Golf, but not actually signing a binding contract until I sell my current GTI for decent price privately ... however long it may take. This would take the onus of me having to wait 6 mths, and put the onus on Volkswagen to ensure they are adequately stocked with same or very similar examples (generally not likely as Ray is finding out with no fully optioned GTI examples in stock). Otherwise, in stock availability of Focus DSG ST or Toyobaru, which are likely to be cheaper than the 15% more expensive similarily optioned Golf could be a proposition. Otherwise hold on to the GTI for longer as it a very good car ... much better now with VW OEM Driver Gear Sport Springs might I add. Either way, Volkswagen Australia loses a sale, imo it is encumbert on VW Aus to ensure that they meet demand and owner preferences ... VW Aus now has some fancy new Chullora HQ ... maybe invest in a large holding yard (pref. uncover) to ensure heaps of stock around.

Cheers.
WJ

[h100vw]

Agreed.

While everyone is in ah 'beatching mode' ... my GTI is coming up to 2 years old and is performing better than ever (with exception of interior platsics/chassis flex squeaks). Recent interstate trip yield 6.6 litres per 100km fuel economy, which is great for turbo four. When I sold the MKV for a good price, making it a no brainer to purchase a MK6 Golf, I had to wait 6 mths and 1 week for the new MK6 GTI to arrive with options I desired (mainly sports options that later turned out to be std options on the Golf R ... go figure). In the interim, I purchased a motorcycle to keep me mobile for that 6 mth period. I don't anticipate on waiting another 6 mths for a preferred order spec Golf of any sort. Perhaps I should put the onus on Volkswagen Australia or my Local Dealer to ensure that there is always at least one example of the spec & variant I want in the Golf range, should I chose to purchase. Like ordering a Golf, but not actually signing a binding contract until I sell my current GTI for decent price privately ... however long it may take. This would take the onus of me having to wait 6 mths, and put the onus on Volkswagen to ensure they are adequately stocked with same or very similar examples (generally not likely as Ray is finding out with no fully optioned GTI examples in stock). Otherwise, in stock availability of Focus DSG ST or Toyobaru, which are likely to be cheaper than the 15% more expensive similarily optioned Golf could be a proposition. Otherwise hold on to the GTI for longer as it a very good car ... much better now with VW OEM Driver Gear Sport Springs might I add. Either way, Volkswagen Australia loses a sale, imo it is encumbert on VW Aus to ensure that they meet demand and owner preferences ... VW Aus now has some fancy new Chullora HQ ... maybe invest in a large holding yard (pref. uncover) to ensure heaps of stock around.

Cheers.
WJ

[PGS_AUS]

I don't know that you would actually have any better chance of getting either the Focus ST or BRZ/86 twins any sooner than you would a new VW. I know from a bit over five years ago when I ordered an XR5 early on in their release cycle (about 4 months after their initial release) that I was told it would be a 9 month wait for the car which wasn't specced out of the ordinary. As it turned out I only had to wait 6 months but there was still certainly a wait. For the first two years after their relase there was an average 6 to 7 month delay if you couldn't source a built car that was available on delaer stock. Same thing happened with Subaru and the WRX in the late 90s prior to the bug eyed Rexs. The dealership I worked for at the time had a running 8 month waiting list.

Unfortunately Australia is just a pimple on the butt of global car demand and to add to the injury are in a remote location from most manufacturers (becoming more of an exception now that South Africa and various near Asian factories are now used to source our car supply) means in the mid term we're probably never going to get the supply for niche models that we could actually fill.

Ironically I just traded that XR5 in on a new in stock Golf R two weeks ago and drove away within 4 days of signing the contract so VW doesn't always get it wrong.

[SilvrFoxX]

Congrats on the purchase and kudos for not having to wait.. if it is any consolation I would wait for the car I wanted.. the R was and is worth the agony in every way, had it for 10 months now and haven't looked at carsales the whole time and look for excuses to just " go for a drive". I keep saying the same thing, if you don't get what you really want there will always be an element of regret, especially if you compromised.

As an aside this phylosphy applies to girlfriends too

[kaanage]

Perhaps I should put the onus on Volkswagen Australia or my Local Dealer to ensure that there is always at least one example of the spec & variant I want in the Golf range, should I chose to purchase. Like ordering a Golf, but not actually signing a binding contract until I sell my current GTI for decent price privately... however long it may take.

I just traded that XR5 in on a new in stock Golf R two weeks ago and drove away within 4 days of signing the contract

And there's the difference!

---------- Post added at 08:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------

- cornering: until I get to know the Octy's limits, the R is way more fun around corners .. get to do some truly crazy stuff

This is what I don't get - just going fast isn't that fun to me. I like to feel that I'm doing more than turning the wheel and having the car point exactly where I want it if I'm having a play.

[SilvrFoxX]

This is what I don't get - just going fast isn't that fun to me. I like to feel that I'm doing more than turning the wheel and having the car point exactly where I want it if I'm having a play.

I have been giving this some thought and come to the conclusion that it is more about how quickly one can get a car to the edge of either the driver or the machine's capability. My sense is this is achieved far quicker and easily for those not driving the R.

For the rest of us the joy of the drive is somewhat different

[phantomcamel]

Perhaps I should put the onus on Volkswagen Australia or my Local Dealer to ensure that there is always at least one example of the spec & variant I want in the Golf range,
WJ

Soooo, WJ, you expect your dealership/VW to carry every single model in every single color combination, with every possible factory fitted accessory combination? I don't want to sound disrespectful, but "you are dreamin'"
There are at least two reasons why this never will happen:

1. you end up with a stockpile of cars no-one wants being dumped on the market dragging down the value of the brand (like FORD...
2. cars are not owned by the dealerships, but by the finance companies - ever since the last financial crisis getting stock financed has become harder & more expensive - a 60 day old car means all sorts of evil forces are unleashed to get rid of it

Seriously? No.....