Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[hooba]

There is a big difference between constructive and inflammatory comments.

Troll all you want, I own a 2005 Mk5 Comfortline as well as Mk6.

[triode12]

There is a big difference between constructive and inflammatory comments.

Troll all you want, I own a 2005 Mk5 Comfortline as well as Mk6.

Like the ones that you post eh? Take the log out of your own eye before taking the speck out of the other person's.

Which Mk6? GTI?

[Corey_R]

Settle you two

[WhiteJames]

Steering Wheel Kickback

In terms of handling between the Golf R –v- Golf GTI:

There is one issue that may be relevant to both the Golf R and Mark 6 GTI that was not apparent in the earlier R32 and Mark V GTI. That issue is steering wheel kickback.

I’ve noticed on the GTI that on certain B-grade roadways with corrugations running across the corner, esp. around apex, the undulations in the roadway filter back through the steering wheel causing it to tug of your intended steering line. This was not apparent in the Mark V R32 or Mark V GTI - regardless of whether they were running OE or aftermarket suspension. I’ve heard of reports that the Golf R had a tendency for some steering wheel kickback (ausmotive.com.au).

On a recent 500km round trip from Queanbeyan/Canberra – Batemans Bay – Bega – Cooma – return to Canberra which includes The Clyde Mountain on Kings Hwy and Brown Mountain on the Alpine - Snowy Mountains Hwy – with Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) running in both NORMAL (40%) and SPORT (60%) - the Mark 6 GTI had a tendency to have steering wheel kickback.

The kickback was less frequent with DCC in Normal mode. DCC Sport mode had the kickback occurring with greater intensity and frequency and was annoying at times. The kickback was quite frequent on this 500km route of country roadways and had me thinking: (1) The taunt chassis of the Mark 6 has less suspension compliance than the earlier MKV version – unable to say exactly what has induced the kickback in terms of chassis, springs, bars, bushes, geometry, etc; (2) Had me wondering if the new Polo GTI has a tendency to exhibit steering wheel kickback. That new Polo GTI is hot.

On B’grade road country trips, the exhaust scavenging resonating rattle is rarely heard – but after a few tight twisties, the B-Pillar clicking sound not apparent with the Mark V Golf occasionally develops – although this appears to be on warmer days with a greater amount of humidity. The squeaky front passenger seat is still an issue in both the MKV and Mark 6 GTI – regardless of having leather or cloth trim. Fuel consumption on the 500km trip with a major mountain climb up Brown Mountain with oil temp hitting as high as 116 degrees was 7.4 litres.

Speaking of fuel consumption:

The new Polo GTI is stated to use an average of 5.9 litres/100km – weighs 175kgs less than the GTI and 300kgs less than the Golf R making it more agile – has no turbo lag due to addition of a supercharger improving usability – has XDS to kerb understeer on public roadway. The Polo GTI is very much looking the goods on paper as a driver’s vehicle.

On another tangent: Neighbour is yet to test the HSV Clubsport R8 – he does like the fact that there are avenues to modify the HSV with less hassle regarding warranty. Ray did test drive the new Lexus IS350 with 235kW V6 motor, weighing in at 1640kg, costing @ 80K with sports suspension/wheels & plenty of executive type kit included that would have the price of a similarly optioned Audi A5 sky-rocket. Not sure if it’s easy to source a supercharger for the Lexus V6 –v- HSV Clubsport R8.

Cheers
WJ

[AdamD]

There is one issue that may be relevant to both the Golf R and Mark 6 GTI that was not apparent in the earlier R32 and Mark V GTI. That issue is steering wheel kickback.

The GTI exhibits far less kickback for a torquey front driver than I would otherwise expect - indeed, far less than any of my previous FWD cars.

My drive of an R covered some broken bitumen roads and railway crossings, and I didn't notice any kickback to speak of.

Given the number of kilometres you've travelled in your GTI, and the extent of your analytical commentary on same, surely any kickback issue is extremely minor if you've not mentioned it until now?

That new Polo GTI is hot.

Steady on there WJ, you haven't even driven it yet.

[Fab_R]

In terms of handling between the Golf R –v- Golf GTI:

There is one issue that may be relevant to both the Golf R and Mark 6 GTI that was not apparent in the earlier R32 and Mark V GTI. That issue is steering wheel kickback.

I’ve noticed on the GTI that on certain B-grade roadways with corrugations running across the corner, esp. around apex, the undulations in the roadway filter back through the steering wheel causing it to tug of your intended steering line. This was not apparent in the Mark V R32 or Mark V GTI - regardless of whether they were running OE or aftermarket suspension. I’ve heard of reports that the Golf R had a tendency for some steering wheel kickback (ausmotive.com.au).

On a recent 500km round trip from Queanbeyan/Canberra – Batemans Bay – Bega – Cooma – return to Canberra which includes The Clyde Mountain on Kings Hwy and Brown Mountain on the Alpine - Snowy Mountains Hwy – with Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) running in both NORMAL (40%) and SPORT (60%) - the Mark 6 GTI had a tendency to have steering wheel kickback.

The kickback was less frequent with DCC in Normal mode. DCC Sport mode had the kickback occurring with greater intensity and frequency and was annoying at times. The kickback was quite frequent on this 500km route of country roadways and had me thinking: (1) The taunt chassis of the Mark 6 has less suspension compliance than the earlier MKV version – unable to say exactly what has induced the kickback in terms of chassis, springs, bars, bushes, geometry, etc; (2) Had me wondering if the new Polo GTI has a tendency to exhibit steering wheel kickback. That new Polo GTI is hot.

On B’grade road country trips, the exhaust scavenging resonating rattle is rarely heard – but after a few tight twisties, the B-Pillar clicking sound not apparent with the Mark V Golf occasionally develops – although this appears to be on warmer days with a greater amount of humidity. The squeaky front passenger seat is still an issue in both the MKV and Mark 6 GTI – regardless of having leather or cloth trim. Fuel consumption on the 500km trip with a major mountain climb up Brown Mountain with oil temp hitting as high as 116 degrees was 7.4 litres.

Speaking of fuel consumption:

The new Polo GTI is stated to use an average of 5.9 litres/100km – weighs 175kgs less than the GTI and 300kgs less than the Golf R making it more agile – has no turbo lag due to addition of a supercharger improving usability – has XDS to kerb understeer on public roadway. The Polo GTI is very much looking the goods on paper as a driver’s vehicle.

On another tangent: Neighbour is yet to test the HSV Clubsport R8 – he does like the fact that there are avenues to modify the HSV with less hassle regarding warranty. Ray did test drive the new Lexus IS350 with 235kW V6 motor, weighing in at 1640kg, costing @ 80K with sports suspension/wheels & plenty of executive type kit included that would have the price of a similarly optioned Audi A5 sky-rocket. Not sure if it’s easy to source a supercharger for the Lexus V6 –v- HSV Clubsport R8.

Cheers
WJ

Here we go...........

[Pepe]

In terms of handling between the Golf R –v- Golf GTI:

There is one issue that may be relevant to both the Golf R and Mark 6 GTI that was not apparent in the earlier R32 and Mark V GTI. That issue is steering wheel kickback.

Ummm, it's called GRIP? Use of both hands on the wheel should cure this terrible flaw in the R's design.

Surely you should spend a bit more time in an R than just a tyre kicking drive before parroting stuff you read on the internet as gospel?

What's your next moan about the R? LED tails somehow add to drag or change the centre of gravity? R front badge causes clearance issues for the bugs flying into the grill? Lack of red stitching makes you sad, but you read it somewhere else on the internet too, so it's a valid complaint?

And yes, it's a monday!

Also, again with the Polos? Really?

[Fab_R]

Ummm, it's called GRIP? Use of both hands on the wheel should cure this terrible flaw in the R's design.

Surely you should spend a bit more time in an R than just a tyre kicking drive before parroting stuff you read on the internet as gospel?

What's your next moan about the R? LED tails somehow add to drag or change the centre of gravity? R front badge causes clearance issues for the bugs flying into the grill? Lack of red stitching makes you sad, but you read it somewhere else on the internet too, so it's a valid complaint?

And yes, it's a monday!

Also, again with the Polos? Really?

No no no no, it will be the flux capacitor and the difference of effectiveness between the GTi & the Golf R...of course the GTi will come out on top, with the Polo GTi thrown in for good measure, that will come second.
In percentage terms, it will look like this. GTi 60% Polo GTi 30% & Golf R 10%

Neighbour Ray will also be thrown in for another opinion... he will be considering a Hyundai I30 purchase as a result of the confusion thrown in by his neighbour WhiteJames.

I give up!

[G-rig]

Feeling some feedback through the steering wheel is part of the fun with front wheel drive cars. Agree that other manufacturer's would be worse. The polo will have a smaller footprint and less grip that could make it seem like more fun.

Agree the squarky door seals are annoying on the MK5 and 6, they should use a different kind of rubber or something.

[dave_r]

Neighbour Ray will also be thrown in for another opinion... he will be considering a Hyundai I30 purchase as a result of the confusion thrown in by his neighbour WhiteJames.

Sound like miserable bastards to me. This is not a one make racing class we're talking about, they're road cars. Why all the over analysis? Pick a few cars you like, test drive, buy. Wait a year or 3 and repeat.

[AdamD]

What's your next moan about the R? LED tails somehow add to drag or change the centre of gravity? R front badge causes clearance issues for the bugs flying into the grill? Lack of red stitching makes you sad, but you read it somewhere else on the internet too, so it's a valid complaint?

Guys seriously, WJ's entitled to his opinion, and he's not bagging one model at the expense of another here. You mightn't agree with his views (nor do I in this case), but please don't just blindly assume he's bagging the R because he mentions it in a post. If you re-read the post, you'll notice that the only kickback he claims to have experienced himself is in his GTI, and he says he's spent some decent time in an R.

If you don't like or want to read WJ's posts, you might as well just /unsubscribe from this thread. Less insults will make for a better forum IMO.

(At any rate, all else being equal, kickback is likely to affect the GTI more than the R anyway, due to the proportion of torque sent to the front wheels.)

*Gets back in box*

[SilvrFoxX]

Guys seriously, WJ's entitled to his opinion, and he's not bagging one model at the expense of another here. You mightn't agree with his views (nor do I in this case), but please don't just blindly assume he's bagging the R because he mentions it in a post. If you re-read the post, you'll notice that the only kickback he claims to have experienced himself is in his GTI, and he says he's spent some decent time in an R.

If you don't like or want to read WJ's posts, you might as well just /unsubscribe from this thread. Less insults will make for a better forum IMO.

(At any rate, all else being equal, kickback is likely to affect the GTI more than the R anyway, due to the proportion of torque sent to the front wheels.)

*Gets back in box*

+1

I use these insights to see if they actually matter to my driving experience...also makes for interesting read whilst waiting for the unit to turn up.. I might point out that the manner of my driving would not experience any of these issues so it is just a good read

Keep up the contraversy WJ

[WhiteJames]

The GTI has previously shown a tendency for steering wheel kickback. Queanbeyan/Canberra to Batemans Bay route of 130km would have the GTI kicking back through the steering ½ -1 dozen times each way– namely around the 50km twisting and flowing roadways of the Clyde Mountain from Braidwood to Batemans Bay.

The steering wheel kickback is namely on mid corner scarred & damaged sections of the roadway – regardless of whether they were slow, medium or faster speed corners. Doesn’t matter if the GTI is on little, part or full throttle or on constant throttle or cruise control for that matter – steering has a tendency to kickback in certain instances on unsettling features around mid corner.

The kickback detracts from the drive experience to a degree – making for a very good drive as opposed to an excellent drive – it takes that bit of shine off the Golf’s superior dynamics when it comes to absolute driver involvement.

Torque steer is not a worrisome issue in the GTI. Other roadways that are very tight, twisting and hilly, have very little or no torque steer & no hint of steering wheel kickback as the roadways is much smoother and better quality than the rural roadways down the South Coast of NSW, which have scarred sections of bitumen with ruts and troughs around corners. I think it’s more a function of roadway quality & texture rather than an abundance of torque steer in the GTI.

In respect to having DCC in Normal –v- Sport: DCC in Sport does cause the GTI to have a greater tendency to follow longitudinal ruts and troughs slightly altering the trajectory of the GTI when accelerating in the straight line – no drama on smooth flat roadways. The GTI in DCC Sport shows less suspension compliance to soak these bumps up & will wonder of course a bit with a slight adjustment of steering wheel angle required to keep it straight and true. DCC Normal offers that bit more compliance to better filter out some of this tendency on harsher country roadways.

Cheers
WJ

[Mr_Bob]

it's also possible that in order to add "weight" to the steering for Sport mode, the power steering effect is reduced, allowing more feedback.
I welcome all steering feedback, so long as it doesn't affect the vehicle dynamics (e.g. tramlining)

From memory, Caster is one of the factors contributing to kickback?
If so, this is a good sign that the MK6 has a more aggressive suspension geometry..

[Pepe]

Guys seriously, WJ's entitled to his opinion, and he's not bagging one model at the expense of another here. You mightn't agree with his views (nor do I in this case), but please don't just blindly assume he's bagging the R because he mentions it in a post. If you re-read the post, you'll notice that the only kickback he claims to have experienced himself is in his GTI, and he says he's spent some decent time in an R.

If you don't like or want to read WJ's posts, you might as well just /unsubscribe from this thread. Less insults will make for a better forum IMO.

(At any rate, all else being equal, kickback is likely to affect the GTI more than the R anyway, due to the proportion of torque sent to the front wheels.)

*Gets back in box*

I've said before he's entitled to his opinion, but seriously, for the kind of posts he does, he should have a blog, it'd be the perfect medium for the stuff he posts (which I, and a lot of other people I'm sure, find tedious at best).

As for being objective about it, well, my objective criticism of the posts relates to things like "There may be an issue ..." when it is based on heresay from somewhere else, not even on his own experience. I've driven my R hard and absolutely disagree with the assertion that it pulls to one side, etc. Haven't seen a single person on here that's driven the R for more than an hour agree with him either? If I had the time (or effort factor), I'm sure I could find many more examples.

And constantly taking the thread off topic, with the Polo thing. I wouldn't normally comment, but someone who continually does that provides for a frustrating experience when reading a thread that everyone else seems to be able to stay relevant in.

Also, if you look at his latest post, it's got nothing to do with the R, so why isn't it in the GTI-love thread?

Honestly, I wish he'd just get on and enjoy driving his GTI like I enjoy driving my R