Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[WhiteJames]

Golf GTI – DCC ‘Sport’ mode:


The GTI with DCC in ‘Normal’ mode was a bit of a let-down in terms of chassis compliance. XDS worked fabulously, but could be felt from the driver’ seat. The ride was not as well contained, at times slightly affecting the fluidity of the drive experience.

Put the DCC into ‘SPORT’ mode and wow!

What a transformation.

What was a vehicle that struggled to maintain fluency around these bends with added suspension noise and a bouncy disposition over mid corner bumps– all of a sudden and at a flick of a switch – the GTI in Sport mode was now increasing driver confidence to push on with supreme chassis control.

Suspension noise? Gone. Bounciness? Eliminated. Body Roll? No longer present. XDS intervention? Barely perceptible & unobtrusive. The lack of chassis control? History.

The GTI sat flat in corners, turned in much more sharply with greater aggression. When the Golf R was leaning on its outside front tyre pushing wide into understeer with no XDS to aid in keeping it together – the GTI simply got on with the job darting from corner to corner with minimum of fuss – both uphill and downhill. The GTI maintained a greater amount of throttle and trail brake adjustability due to the softer overall spring rate, with the firm ‘Sport’ tuned dampers tightening up the chassis movements - this did wonders for reducing understeer and creating a fast flowing agile hatchback. The GTI rode better in ‘Sport’ mode than it did in ‘Normal’ mode and XDS interfered less so in ‘Sport’ mode with less positive camber change on the outside tyres. It was simply a case of aim & shoot. Jumping up from the low laying Boat-Shed Bridge onto the roadway on corner entry showed a marked improvement in chassis control without any affect on ride harshness and elimination of the suspension spring noise.

The downhill run had the GTI sitting flat, working its upgraded rear anti-roll bar with XDS in conjunction that momentary and barely perceptible dab of the inner front brake, ensuring you meet your side apex mark time-in/time-out. This made the GTI easier to drive when leaning on the chassis – and that limit does feel higher than that of the Golf R – blame it on the lower speed corners and less heft.

Just when I was about to consider handing in the GTI in exchange for a six-month wait on a Golf R – the GTI with DCC in ‘Sport’ mode has proven that it was actually easier to drive the GTI when pressing on – thank the lord for XDS. The ease of driving comes at a cost – driver involvement with XDS stepping in to take control. The Golf R in contrast, was harder work due to the extra weight and no-XDS – the better balance chassis front to rear failed to impress in the lower speed tight twisting drives.

The GTI with DCC in ‘Sport’ mode was the best drive of the day.


So how do they rate on this short review drive?

1. GTI – DCC Sport mode.
2. Golf R – DCC Sport mode.
3. GTI – DCC Normal mode.



For non-DCC Golf R and Golf GTI – my pick would be:

1. Golf R
2. Golf GTI


What about Neighbour Ray and his purchase decision?

We’ll have to keep you posted on that one ... time will tell.



Weather Condition:

Clear dry 22 degree day with dry bitumen roadway.

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Some more pics in WJ Suspension Thread:

http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100863&page=14

Cheers
WJ

[hooba]

Brilliant write up, much appreciated.

[Corey_R]

Although there are performance differences between 2WD, RWD, AWD, 4WD etc, we could argue till we're red in the face about the merrits of each and the practicality of each when used within legal limits etc...

AWD and 4WD are the same thing

However, I think there are BIG reasons to look at the AWD version that is not performance related that hasn't really been spoken about, and that is SAFETY!

As the others have already said, this is a BIG misconception.

If the tyres and everything else are equal, a 2WD car will stop quicker as it has less weight. If no acceleration is applied, the 2WD car will turn at a higher speed, again, weight. Someone mentioned that AWD will likely stop the rear coming out, and maybe in the days before ESP and EBD and ABS and all those other TLA's this may have been true if the chassis is not well balanced in a 2WD configuration, but not today.

The only situation AWD really helps is accelerating when the grip level that two wheels can hold on to is exceeded. This means acceleration from a stand still or low speeds, and out of corners (to a certain extent).

On a dry racetrack, the RWD versions of cars available in both AWD and RWD are always quicker. Porsches, Lambos at the Nurburgring etc. This is why the "ultimate versions" of cars are often RWD, even if it makes them absolutely terrifying for the "average" driver to deal with.

Which is a reason why AWD has garnered this "safer" misconception. It makes the car feel more planted, but unless you have ridiculous amounts of power, or you're driving irresponsively, that really doesn't come through in reality. Anyone who was able to do a VW drive day and get out on the skid pan can tell you that the FWD cars were no less capable through the slalom or on the evasive maneuver... apart from the obvious limitations in initial acceleration made even worse due to the water!

But once your going, everything is different. Even in the Motor Hot Tuner Challenge, the Golf R was only 1.6 seconds quicker than the GTI around a VERY wet Eastern Creek. Although not exactly the same power levels, the Golf R had 230kw and the GTI had 217kw at the wheels, the upgrades and setup were done by Harding Performance in QLD. Most AWD proponents would be shocked by those figures, but really, AWD is _not_ what it's cracked up to be.


And yes... I'm buying an R. AWD will get me off the line quicker at the traffic lights... so sue me

[G-rig]

Brilliant write up, much appreciated.

+1 great read.

[SilvrFoxX]

WJ,

That was a great read.. thoroughly enjoyed it... seeing both units put through their respective paces at their limits..

well done

[Pepe]

And yes... I'm buying an R.

+1 and that doesn't need 3000 words to justify (especially after a few beers tonight)

[brad]

AWD and 4WD are the same thing

Not really. I know my wife is allowed to get a Forester as a company car now because it was classified (by her Fleet Manager I believe) as a 4WD but has now been reclassified as AWD.

Generally AWD is considerred to be predominately driving the front wheels with power transferring to the rears as required (which Subaru doesn't do with Symetrical AWD), whereas 4WD is like "offroad stuff"

[Corey_R]

No seriously... they're the same thing. Lookup wiki and research etc.

AWD was a "marketing term" to differentiate cars with 4WD from "big off road truck like things" with 4WD.

You mentioned Subaru's discrepency with AWD terminology. Then there is the fact that both Subaru and Audi championed their 'AWD' with "offroad stuff" like WRC.

Places like Wiki make the distinction that 4WD is for "part time" systems where the user can select and that AWD is for "full time" 4WD systems which are usable on dry pavement where the part time 4WD system may not be suitable. Yet we all know that whilst we cannot pick the settings for the Golf it is part time (front biased), and you can pick settings with many Subarus but they're AWD.

Then there is the matter that systems from the same car manufacturer can be called AWD or 4WD regardless of their tech, Haldex and other branded traction hydraulic clutches, or a permanent-operating 4WD system with a Torsen diffs, or other types of differentials. Then even with the same tech, they can be referred to different things by different brands within the same umbrella.

So the only conclusion you can really draw is that AWD and 4WD are the same thing. What matters if the underlying technology not the first letter of the TLA.

[dave_r]

Blah to that. If anyone asks me what my car is, I'm not saying 4WD or AWD. I'm gonna say its Haldex! Should catch on with the kids like all the cool stuff in Fast and Furious did hehe.

Oh and anyone that thinks AWD is a security blanket is on crack. It's awesome until it lets go and when it does......it really does. Was piss funny watching many a muppet in the early days thinking they were invincible in their WRX's.

[Pepe]

I was under the impression the R could send 100% to the back wheels in certain circumstances, wouldn't that make it 4WD under that definition? Haldex FTW

[Happs]

AWD and 4WD are the same thing

By spelling out AWD and 4WD, the difference I was implying is that AWD splits power as and when needed (I.e. not constant 4WD) - 4WD or constant AWD is constant and permanent all the time 4 wheel power split.

I know manufacturer's change the abbreviations all the time and most of it is marketing spin, but there are constant permanent AWD or 4WD, and traditional AWD systems (torque splits) - which are different!

http://www.carsales.com.au/advice/2010/what-is-the-difference-between-4wd-and-awd-7530

[Happs]

If the tyres and everything else are equal, a 2WD car will stop quicker as it has less weight.

But my comparison (and this thread) is comparing the GTi to the R. The brakes on the R are bigger and most reviews have said the R has an obvious stopping power that exceeds the GTi (even with the weight difference).

Of course take any identical cars, with identical brake packages, and the lighter of the 2 wins.

On a dry racetrack, the RWD versions of cars available in both AWD and RWD are always quicker. Porsches, Lambos at the Nurburgring etc. This is why the "ultimate versions" of cars are often RWD, even if it makes them absolutely terrifying for the "average" driver to deal with.

Of course, but as many have said, who is seriously buying one over the other based on racetrack performance! 99% will never see a racetrack or go anywhere near the limits of either car.

What I said was, driving legally on normal Aus roads and a normal (read average) Aus driver; the AWD system will 'engage & save' a driver who would otherwise have lost control. I would think (and it's obviously just an opinion), your average ham-fisted driver who doesn't know an apex from their 'you-know-what', would loose traction with a FWD/RWD car before they do an AWD car, and therefore I still think that equates to 'safer' for the average driver.

And yes... I'm buying an R. AWD will get me off the line quicker at the traffic lights... so sue me

ABSOLUTELY!!! And as a few others have said, some bought it just in case they got the GTi and had that little nagging feeling that they should have sprung that little bit more for the more performance oriented car (in theory anyway).

All are perfectly valid reasons, not just the raw performance comparison - and all things I'm taking into account too

[Happs]

REMATCH:


Golf R –v- Golf GTI

Absolutely brilliant write-up! Thank you for taking the time to do the drive and to write up the comparison - certainly a LOT of food for thought.

So here's a basic question - the way your every day driver will use these cars (work commutes, occasional enthusiastic drive but probably nowhere near either car's limit), which car feels quicker?

Obviously statistically speaking there's an actual difference, but real world scenario, are they actually closely matched for acceleration performance and just good 'ol put a smile on your face fun?

[triode12]

Absolutely brilliant write-up! Thank you for taking the time to do the drive and to write up the comparison - certainly a LOT of food for thought.

So here's a basic question - the way your every day driver will use these cars (work commutes, occasional enthusiastic drive but probably nowhere near either car's limit), which car feels quicker?

Obviously statistically speaking there's an actual difference, but real world scenario, are they actually closely matched for acceleration performance and just good 'ol put a smile on your face fun?

IMO, the R feels quicker and more fun to drive having tested them back to back several times.

Your best bet would be to drive both cars and make up your mind because there will not be consensus about which one is more fun to drive on this forum. Biases playing a big part in the opinions offered. (I don't own a MkVI R or GTI btw)