Golf 118 TSI Engine Failures and Service Campaign 24S4

[tigger73]

The best outcome is to get some form of commitment from VWA before heading down the path of a $2k diagnosis.

They should be able to tell you by the age of the vehicle, km and service history what you are going to be offered in terms of goodwill repair.

You can then determine whether to tip the $ into diagnosis at a dealer or go the second-hand engine route at a reputable independent.

[Scorpius9]

Yes, they are being morons - from the very sensible and strictly mechanical point of view of diagnosis and repair.

But that's not the business model being used here. The business model being used is in one which, for one thing, workshop services at dealerships are kept ticking over, and the very high costs paid by us punters for those services minus whatever costs VWA has to pay out under warranties and 'goodwill' still maximises profits for both.

They also know what percentage of engines are having this problem, when they're having them, how much a recall would cost, whether or not they can get away without having a recall, and will have a strategy in place to...let's put it euphemistically...'minimise negative impacts to the company'.

There are already many people on this thread who have given up and put in second-hand engines, with little or no compensation from VWA. I know of other people - not on this thread - who have put in up to three engines without bothering with VWA at all. All of these cases are wins for VWA - and VWA will be well aware of this.

Oh yes - don't worry - they will have calculated a value for the longterm damage to the company with respect to these failed engines and its effects on market sales...

And taking into consideration all of these things, VW has adopted the strategy it has.

[blower]

You can get to the pistons from below with this engine.

Tell them to unbolt the gearbox, crankshaft pulley, drop the sump, unbolt the crankshaft and conrods and just pull the pistons out from underneath.
That's half the work to get to the pistons - and hence half the diagnostic fee.

It will be the pistons that have cracked....hell they will probably see the cracked pistons with a borescope through the spark plug holes.

They just need to stop being morons and diagnose this thing like any sensible mechanic would and not follow some ridiculous diagnostic procedure that has you disassembling the entire engine.

[Scorpius9]

The response I get is:

We are always here to help as best we can however we are unable to offer any assistance without a full diagnosis and quotation. In your case, we know the vehicle has low compression but we don’t know the extent of the damage nor what has caused the loss of compression without removing the cylinder head. Until we have written authorisation from yourself as the owner of the vehicle and acceptance of our diagnostic charge we are unable to start this process.

They are seeking $1760 to diagnose the engine fault and are claiming no responsibility until I am prepared to pay this, which I am not.

As your vehicle's factory warranty has expired in 2013, we cannot cover for the cost of diagnosis.
No assistance can be provided yet, as we require your vehicle to be diagnosed with one of our service centres at our Volkswagen dealerships.
So we can determine the exact cause/source of the problem.

We can not provide yourself with a loan vehicle.

Does anyone know if you MUST go to a VW dealership to get a diagnosis that will satisfy VW Australia?...especially if the vehicle is out of warranty...That seems like some sort of restriction of trade.

A diagnosis from a reputable mechanic (say, an NRMA-approved mechanic in NSW or an RAA-approved mechanic in SA) ought to be enough - and will likely cost less than $1760 - especially since the mechanic will know what to look for.

I'm not saying it can be done that way - but it might be worth enquiring, or insisting with VWA, that you should be allowed to go down this path - always provided VWA is prepared to pick up the tab if it proves to be the problem it almost certainly is. (If the car were under warranty, I guess it would be a different story, since the terms of the warranty would no doubt tie you to a VW dealer.)

If it turns out to be a different problem, then you've paid out less money, the car is in the hands of a mechanic that you trust, and the money hasn't gone into the hands of a company and its agents that you're cranky with.

[Scorpius9]

Scorpio9, I am interested in such. I agree that there is power in numbers. How many more are interested ?

Well - that makes two of us! A legal firm might take on a case like this if it felt it could throw the resources at it to good effect, and had a sufficient number of clients. It would be interesting to know the percentage of failed engines. It seems to me that VW knew of the problem long before it ceased to sell this engine - or modify it. That VW has acted in scurrilous fashion for years on other matters - diesel engine emissions - helps to establish a broader case for illegal, or at least disingenuous, company behaviour.

[The_Hawk]

What you want to get from VW before you start with diagnostics is the best/worst case in terms of your out of pocket costs.

That way you can work out whether to go down that path or to just source a second-hand engine and get an independent workshop to fit it.

Probably the best idea before you enter into that pit of dispair.

[tigger73]

All the dealers will have to perform diagnosis before sending the result to VWA for them to determine what they will/won't cover under any goodwill repairs. In actual fact goodwill repairs is just another name for VW's legal responsibility under consumer law. You as a customer could reasonably expect your car to last more than 6 years without blowing up an engine.

However you have to also take into consideration that VW may not cover the entire cost. And if you're not happy with what VW comes back with, you're still liable to the workshop for the "diagnostics" time.

What you want to get from VW before you start with diagnostics is the best/worst case in terms of your out of pocket costs.

That way you can work out whether to go down that path or to just source a second-hand engine and get an independent workshop to fit it.

[nperkins]

Mr R, I'd be keen to understand who your mechanic is as I have the same situation. I am and will continue to pursue VW but may have to get it repaired and then send them the bill

[nperkins]

Waz, your experience sounds similar to mine. Which dealer did you go to ?

[nperkins]

Waz, I'd be keen to understand more about your experience, which is a contrast to the experience I am getting from VW Australia, which despite, being a loyal VW customer for 20 years with also a new Tiguan in the family, has been a response about getting a Mk6 Golf 118TSI engine properly diagnosed being the below.

As your vehicle's factory warranty has expired in 2013, we cannot cover for the cost of diagnosis.
No assistance can be provided yet, as we require your vehicle to be diagnosed with one of our service centres at our Volkswagen dealerships.
So we can determine the exact cause/source of the problem.

We can not provide yourself with a loan vehicle.

If there is any guidance you can provide that would be useful.

[nperkins]

Scorpio9, I am interested in such. I agree that there is power in numbers. How many more are interested ?

[nperkins]

Folks,

My 2010 Mk 6 1118TSI Engine has had the same compression issues and I have taken it to the dealer. ON their recommendation, I have written a comprehensive letter to VW Australia which I now read is the incorrect path, but the dealer is reponsible. I have forward to the dealer the compliant to VW Australia, and the complain that I just lodged with the office of fair trading (NSW). The response I get is:

We are always here to help as best we can however we are unable to offer any assistance without a full diagnosis and quotation. In your case, we know the vehicle has low compression but we don’t know the extent of the damage nor what has caused the loss of compression without removing the cylinder head. Until we have written authorisation from yourself as the owner of the vehicle and acceptance of our diagnostic charge we are unable to start this process.

They are seeking $1760 to diagnose the engine fault and are claiming no responsibility until I am prepared to pay this, which I am not.

From discussion with people I know in the mechanics industry, apparently the VW dealers get paid less if they do work that is Warranty work approved by VW Australia, rather than paid for by the customer, and so they try and get the customers to pay for the work rather than deal with it under warranty. Anyone heard of this before ?

I'd be keen to understand if anyone has got any information about what are the obligations on the dealer to investigate and diagnose a repair, especially given what appears to be a history of cases with such engines.

I'd also be interested in understanding anyones thoughts as to why the dealer has written that they are 'unable' to deal with the situation, and any case history as to what is the dealers responsibility to diagnose in case of reasonable likelihood that there is an engine fault.

[Scorpius9]

Thanks! All sympathy greatly received. I really just put this story up to add to the collective misery - to put it on the record.

Looking through this (very long) thread, there are some very common issues cropping up:
1. Problems with the engine - there really should have been a recall.
2. Problems with VW - the company's ultimate motive seems only to be to squeeze you till you give in at some point.
3. Problems with dealers - I don't understand why they seem to side with VW and not their customers.
4. The ACCC being basically useless - it seems its main purpose is to gather information that can be used for the occasional high-profile, highly publicised case, and the rest of the time it's just there to gather information that might lead to policy/legislative change down the track. The ACCC is really incapable of helping an individual with cases like ours.

Has anyone thought of starting a class action against VW over this engine issue? I reckon there would be enough takers.

[Mk R]

Ouch. As you have probably gathered by now you had piston failure (twice) as have many of us (once). As long as you got the latest upgraded pistons this last time round on all four cylinders it should be fine.

Sorry to hear about your experience.

[Scorpius9]

1.4TSI 118 Blown Engines

Well...yet another sad Golf 1.4TSI 118 story on blown engines. VW must be getting sick of this (assuming it's listening) but I think the company, and its Australian service agents, deserve all the bad press they get. So...

My partner bought this car in September 2011 from Duttons in South Australia. 2 years and 28,000 km later the engine started to rough idle and...you guessed it...there proved to be compression failure in cylinder 1 as the piston had cracked. This was under warranty, and the engine was completely replaced but only after VW tried on the following: (i) Put in a reconditioned engine instead - strenuously rejected, and finally accepted by VW. (ii) Repair the broken engine - also strenuously rejected, and finally accepted by VW. (iii) Put in a brand new engine but only with a 2 year warranty instead of a 3 year - we finally buckled on the warranty period.

I bet you can guess what happened next! Just over 22,000 km later, and just a week outside the 2 year warranty period, the same problem happened, this time in a different cylinder. At about the same time, the two front shock absorbers needed to be replaced - and this car doesn't even have a driveway bump to go over. This is where the bun fight really started, both with VW and Duttons...

VW was basically intractable: Certainly no new car. Certainly no new engine. Out of the 'goodness of its heart' - since the car was a week out of their shortened warranty - it would only agree to a repaired engine but again not with a 3 year warranty, only with a 2 year warranty. Duttons was largely obstructive, and often rude. Duttons seemed intent on defending itself and VW rather than the customer. I'm not sure why it took this line since ultimately they can charge any repairs or replacements straight back to VW.

All this took about 6 weeks of to-ing and fro-ing. There were some positives: VW continued to pay for a hire car, though with great reluctance. A couple of the supervisors in the Duttons workshop were kind and provided useful information that the sales manager could not, or refused to, provide - not that this info did our case any good. The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission listened politely - but were basically useless. They pretty much admitted that the car companies were too powerful for them - and certainly any individual - and a company will just stonewall you unless you are prepared to go to court. Aussie Golf owners who have rung the ACCC have probably had the same experience.

So, the washup: A new car that by 50,000 km needed two front shocks (~$1000 in cost), a replacement engine, and then a repaired engine. It's really not good enough, and given that the second engine went down at the time VW was outed for the diesel engine emissions scandal, it just makes a nonsense of how trustworthy this company is - basically, it can't be trusted.

There were a couple of stings in the tail:
(i) The sales manager finally came out and said that the original engine should not have been changed for an entirely new engine. Why? Because the new engine that was used had exactly the same faulty components as the original. So it was bound to fail, wasn't it? And it did. Why they didn't use a new engine with the upgraded parts is beyond me - the problem was well known to VW by then (2013). I'm not sure where this lies on the scale of dumbness, but it has to be right down there. (The second engine, which was repaired rather than replaced, was repaired with upgraded parts.)
(ii) The second engine had exactly the same engine number as the first engine. Apparently, the engines are imported with no serial number so Duttons/VW stamped on the same number as the original. This is illegal under Australian law - for obvious reasons since it contributes to the illegal trade in car parts. The sales manager seemed completely blank to the implications of this - he insisted that a new engine had been put in and that is certainly what Duttons had charged back to VW. But was a new engine put in? Or did they simply repair the original engine (badly) and put that back in? Who knows?...What I do know is that we spent hours trying to establish the legalities of the situation with the South Australian vehicle registration department - yet more time spent in an ongoing fiasco. And, where is that 'other' engine? Who has it now? It's all very murky.