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  • #31
    Originally posted by Dermot
    Be very careful using the price calculator. It is a guide only.

    EG. It quotes the Drive Away price for an R50 in WA at $172,000. We quote $153,000.

    The calculator is more expensive on pretty much all of our cars than what we charge. I wonder if I should be revising my prices.....
    ummm...let's just agree now, that you won't.

    And we'll talk about the service department another day.

    keep selling, Dermot.......
    MY16 Touareg 4.2Lt V8 TDI/Pure White LED lightbox/REDARC Brake Controller/ Racechip/iDrive Throttle controller
    2008 GOLF .:R32/5DR DBPE DSG/SUNROOF/RNS510/PRIVACY TINT/CONTI SC3s/MILLTEK CATBACK NON-RES/9W2 BT/"MYR-032"

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Highlander View Post
      In another post somewhere in this forum you took a young potential buyer to task over not understanding that insurance premiums could vary from location to location and correctly explained to him that the insurance companies use claims statistics to set their premiums.

      I doubt that you can provide any evidence where stamp duties and registration vary according to age. What does vary comes back to your insurance argument. It is the compulsory third party premium that varies both with age, location, use etc but the difference is really pretty minimal in the overall price of a motor vehicle.
      I didn't mean stamp duties and rego specifically but was talking about all of them together. CTP as you said is age affected. My wording was poor but the intent was there.

      Originally posted by Maverick View Post
      Blame Krudd and his stupid laws and the states and they complicated ways they screw us when buying a car. Stamp duties, registration and so on all vary according to age, purpose of the vehicle and so forth. To provide prices for every option wouldn't be feasible so they provide the most common one.
      Krudd's new laws require the pricing to be pretty accurate so even though the difference between rego for business and personal (just GST in Queensland) and CTP (around the same if the category is general usage for business and personal) isn't that much they still need to specify it accurately. Pretty pointless IMO as it just creates too much complexity for pricing.

      Dealer Delivery is really a sugar coated way of saying extra dealer profit. There is no way it can be justified as it was in the past as predelivery preparation of the vehicle.

      Dealer Delivery grew up under the old wholesale tax regime where sales tax was paid on the wholesale price of the car and it lowered the overall price to the consumer if "dealer delivery" was not included in the wholesale price as there was no sales tax on "services" before the GST.
      Either way it's going to be in the price. If the dealer delivery is removed it will just be added to the retail price of the car.

      Now it is very much the negotiating area for the dealer. On My CC retail dealer delivery was $2995. Corporate dealer delivery $995 - probably why my wheel alignment was out and no RNS510 DVD in the glovebox (just joking). This deficiency is probably shared by the dealer and VWA.
      I'm sure you're right that both sides take a hit on margin with corporate sales.

      Please be kind to those of us who just like our cars but can see that the cars, the dealers and VWA may, and only may, be susceptible to having some minor flaws.
      There's a difference between the constant dealer/vwa are always wrong and screwing us and legitimately having a concern. Too many are happy to go off without realising that there isn't actually a problem or to do some research.

      As far as sales negotiation is concerned, the only way everyone is happy in the deal is when you THINK you have screwed the dealer and the dealer KNOWS he has screwed you.
      I was happy with my deal and the dealer I assume was happy as well, in my books it was a win/win for both parties. I didn't feel like I had to screw them and neither did I want to screw them.

      If you think this reply is a little bit "maverikish" in tone, please accept my apologies in advance as I do value a lot of the information you have provided in many areas of this forum and especially on gti.com.
      I don't have a problem with the tone, it's to the point and factual. Others on the other hand may take offense.

      Together with Swallowtail, you have provided my inspiration to spend my money with Ross-Tech, so I can sit in the darkened garage with my PC and enhance my love affair with the CC.
      website: www.my-gti.com

      Comment


      • #33
        Couldn't agree more Dermot

        Originally posted by Dermot
        Ok, Time for a wake up call for some people.

        I joined this forum because firstly, for my love of Volkswagen and Audi cars, and secondly to try to help potential owners to make a decision to buy a Volkswagen or an Audi.

        All up, I have been with Volkswagen for seven years. And only recently have I felt like I am in a hated profession. I always thought Parking Wardens and Lawyers were top of the list, but clearly not.

        Some people simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND the economics of business. You sell every car at a loss, and then there is no dealership. Nowhere to buy your next car, nowhere to get it serviced, nowhere to buy genuine parts.

        Every person who walks into Wangara Volkswagen to buy a car has a job. Weather it be selling hamburgers in McDonalds, selling homes to first time buyers, answering the phone in a call centre, or running a multi national microchip manufacturer. All have a job to do.

        Now if they are walking into a dealership to spend $40,000, presumably they are good at their job, right? Well what if I was useless at my job? What if I discounted the hell out of every car for every tom **** and harry who walked in? What if I paid over the market price for all trades, and on top of that gave free accessories with every deal, would I be good at my job? NO. Would the dealership there for much longer, I doubt it.

        The point is, bashing a dealer because you can is just wrong. We, like you have a job to do. And before someone comes in with the comment “ripping people off”, for every car that is sold at the 8% - 12% discounts that are being claimed here, then one must be sold at FULL RETAIL to claw back the money and balance the books.

        People have an unfair image in their mind of all dealership owners sitting on a $10,000,000 yacht in the Bahamas, sipping Dom Perignon, and laughing at the profits they made on your GTI.

        NOT SO.

        Rent, Electricity, Water, Salary, Commissions, State and Federal Taxes, Insurance, General Running Costs….. This is a business guys, no different to any other. It has over heads. How often do you walk into McDonalds and yell at the guy behind the counter, “Slam your fist on the desk” and demand a better price for your Big Mac? Well, I hear you say a Big Mac is only $3. But McDonalds sell hundreds of millions of them every year, so why is it any different.

        I guess my point is, if you are logical, reasonable, and mature enough to understand the economics of business then your dealership is your friend.

        Further more, I see no reason for a buyer to walk from dealership to dealership looking for the best price. If you are a strong enough negotiator, with people skill, can reasonable, understanding, POLITE and honest with your local dealer then I would fully expect you to be able to get the best deal first time round.

        Lay off the dealers please; I am just like you, doing my job.
        Well stated. Any of us who employ sales staff would not be impressed with our sales staff who sold everything at the barest minimum price.

        The salesman WORKS for the dealer, not for the buyer and it is his job to sell that car for retail, or as close to retail as he can.

        The dealer decides the price levels at where and where not he doesn't want to do the deal.

        And its not all just based on price. An ongoing relationship with 5 or more years of service may influence the dealer in his pricing and that is his right.

        A salesman is not ripping you off because he is not giving you a 10-15% discount, If he sells the car he is doing his job and the closer to retail he gets for it the better he is doing his job.

        As a buyer, you do your job, or your due diligence, but not paying more for the car than you need to.

        Having said that RRPs are starting to appear to be "mythical starting points" for negotiation. No just in the motor industry but in almost every sales area. Do you pay the ticket price for goods in Harvey Norman, Bing Lee, Retravision, David Jones, Myer etc? Even Woolworths, Big W, K Mart and Bunnings have price match or price beating policies. How often do these stores have 20% or greater off sales making a mockery of RRPs?

        As you said Dermot. Beware of RRPs. Almost all our driveaway prices are less than those on the VW site.

        Lots of people on this site, especially the Sandgropers love you, the deals you make and more importantly, the way you make them. And if you really want to be loved by all, all you need is to swap your CC company ride for one of those cool VW Ambulances. Everybody loves and respects the ambos.
        You know you are getting old when you cancel your order for a 3.6 CC and buy an Icelandic Gray TDI CC instead.

        Comment


        • #34
          I too understand the value in selling at RRP and the way it evens out the incredible deals some people negotiate.

          I guess my issue simply lies with my thoughts that a general consumer doesn't care about what dealer they buy the car from - they're buying a VW.

          Now if they see a price stated on the VW site, but are quoted above this (by up to $2k more!) from one dealer over another - they're going to want to know why.

          Buyer beware I guess.
          2019 BMW M3 CS

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Maverick View Post
            There's a difference between the constant dealer/vwa are always wrong and screwing us and legitimately having a concern. Too many are happy to go off without realising that there isn't actually a problem or to do some research.
            I thought I'd highlight this instead of Dermot's full post.
            I agree with what Dermot is saying. I'm highlighting Maverick's post because from what I've read, Mav had a bucket load of issues with the VW dealer in QLD that he dealt with. Yet, Mav still recognises that this doesn't mean all dealers are useless or 'corrupt'.

            Be nice to the dealers guys - they're only doing their jobs and they're there to help YOU. Especially be nice to the dealers that are members of this site - because they really don't need to be - they're here each day offering us free advice when they could be off reading the news or watching youtube or something more entertaining than our ramblings

            Comment


            • #36
              RRP is what is it says on the pack -- a recommended price. As stated, any manufacturer/importer that seeks to enforce pricing at the retail end of the market is acting illegally.

              I reckon it's good to see some of this information reappearing on websites, as it helps buyers during that very early, research phases of car buying, ie, is this car likely to be in my budget? How does its likely cost compare with car B?

              The second phase of that research is when you've decided what you want, and are seeking the deal. Again, the forum is very useful here, but we all need to bear in mind the factors Dermot and his colleagues face in running a business, and that these will vary over time. The manufacturers/importers will offer incentives (eg, 2009 plate clearances, clear for new models etc) or to cope with circumstances (eg, clear floorstock when GE/GMAC exited floorplanning) so the deal that might be available tomorrow from the dealers' business perspective might be quite different to last week.

              And sometimes, the circumstances might be that the dealer is not prepared to budge an inch from the OTR price they have calculated, simply because if you don't buy it at that price, there's a queue behind you of people who will, and Dermot has to pay his quarterly BAS next week! Known as the immutable law of supply and demand
              2015 White German SUV
              2013 White German hatch
              2011 Silver French hot hatch
              2008 TR Golf GT TDI DSG

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Dermot
                Oh, and the price of the new Polo is going up......
                Yeah... that's not a surprise! hehe

                Comment


                • #38
                  Now that really is offensive

                  Originally posted by coreying View Post
                  - they're here each day offering us free advice when they could be off reading the news or watching youtube or something more entertaining than our ramblings
                  I am incensed that someone has the temerity to suggest that reading the news or watching You Tube could be more entertaining than the erudite offerings by the journalistic talents on this forum
                  You know you are getting old when you cancel your order for a 3.6 CC and buy an Icelandic Gray TDI CC instead.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Perhaps a new 200 point 5 year ban infraction needed for such heinous crimes Highlander?

                    (Please no-one take this seriously...)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Dermot
                      Trust me Steve, I am as P1ssed with the situation as you are. How is the Lumbar now?

                      Oh, and the price of the new Polo is going up......

                      I'm not home until this coming weekend. SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) is still not convinced. I'll do a closer inspection when I get home (viz. spirit level, plumb lines etc)

                      So...we knew the Polo price was going to be a bit more...the sticking point will be "How much?"

                      However, my reckoning says... "The higher the price rise...the greater the discount." AMIRIGHT?
                      MY16 Touareg 4.2Lt V8 TDI/Pure White LED lightbox/REDARC Brake Controller/ Racechip/iDrive Throttle controller
                      2008 GOLF .:R32/5DR DBPE DSG/SUNROOF/RNS510/PRIVACY TINT/CONTI SC3s/MILLTEK CATBACK NON-RES/9W2 BT/"MYR-032"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Highlander View Post
                        I am incensed that someone has the temerity to suggest that reading the news or watching You Tube could be more entertaining than the erudite offerings by the journalistic talents on this forum
                        Originally posted by Swallowtail View Post
                        Perhaps a new 200 point 5 year ban infraction needed for such heinous crimes Highlander?

                        (Please no-one take this seriously...)
                        Lol! My deepest apologies!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Dermot
                          Ok, Time for a wake up call for some people.

                          I joined this forum because firstly, for my love of Volkswagen and Audi cars, and secondly to try to help potential owners to make a decision to buy a Volkswagen or an Audi.

                          All up, I have been with Volkswagen for seven years. And only recently have I felt like I am in a hated profession. I always thought Parking Wardens and Lawyers were top of the list, but clearly not.

                          Some people simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND the economics of business. You sell every car at a loss, and then there is no dealership. Nowhere to buy your next car, nowhere to get it serviced, nowhere to buy genuine parts.

                          Every person who walks into Wangara Volkswagen to buy a car has a job. Weather it be selling hamburgers in McDonalds, selling homes to first time buyers, answering the phone in a call centre, or running a multi national microchip manufacturer. All have a job to do.

                          Now if they are walking into a dealership to spend $40,000, presumably they are good at their job, right? Well what if I was useless at my job? What if I discounted the hell out of every car for every tom **** and harry who walked in? What if I paid over the market price for all trades, and on top of that gave free accessories with every deal, would I be good at my job? NO. Would the dealership there for much longer, I doubt it.

                          The point is, bashing a dealer because you can is just wrong. We, like you have a job to do. And before someone comes in with the comment “ripping people off”, for every car that is sold at the 8% - 12% discounts that are being claimed here, then one must be sold at FULL RETAIL to claw back the money and balance the books.

                          People have an unfair image in their mind of all dealership owners sitting on a $10,000,000 yacht in the Bahamas, sipping Dom Perignon, and laughing at the profits they made on your GTI.

                          NOT SO.

                          Rent, Electricity, Water, Salary, Commissions, State and Federal Taxes, Insurance, General Running Costs….. This is a business guys, no different to any other. It has over heads. How often do you walk into McDonalds and yell at the guy behind the counter, “Slam your fist on the desk” and demand a better price for your Big Mac? Well, I hear you say a Big Mac is only $3. But McDonalds sell hundreds of millions of them every year, so why is it any different.

                          I guess my point is, if you are logical, reasonable, and mature enough to understand the economics of business then your dealership is your friend.

                          Further more, I see no reason for a buyer to walk from dealership to dealership looking for the best price. If you are a strong enough negotiator, with people skill, can reasonable, understanding, POLITE and honest with your local dealer then I would fully expect you to be able to get the best deal first time round.

                          Lay off the dealers please; I am just like you, doing my job.

                          I am am with Dermot here as well. Further more I love my Job and I personally enjoy helping people, believe it or not some dealers enjoy watching excited people coming in and picking up there new car. We love it more when people say thank you cause you may have helped them in some small way, Like Ring the Logistics manager of Volkswagen Australia to try and push a car early cause the Customer has been posted early to Afgahnistan, or going on holidays and wants to drive their new car..

                          I worry posting sometimes because of the serious nature of some threads here and the way some guys get harsh. I came on to this forum to help educate and in someways help potential buyers and threaders get some facts right. Like Sunroofs in R36's in Candy white are an must take option when ordering and they do cost 2k.lol (sorry previous thread still in my head lol) Also unlike big macs which I think including staffing ingredients building costs and etc etc .. I think the cost I read somewhere (was like 4 years ago) was 45 to 50 cents. at three bucks a burger that is a huge profit margin I wish we had that sort of margin to work guys but we dont.

                          I think Dermot and I would love to help you guys and girls out in any way we can let us know. Just remember Sometimes as Dealers we do lose money on cars (Trade ins, Demos etc etc) and we dont always make money.. Which of course making money is our job. The Helping customers with questions and so on we do cause that is also our job too and that part I also enjoy.


                          Dermot outlining costs as above for businesses is something customers need to look at too I think. Well that is my piece I hope this does not get me some how Crucified on here.

                          Ps I wish we could Haggle at Macdonalds and Woolworths and Coles what about the Banks and fees imagine asking for discounts from them. lol..

                          Piece of info for you that Car companies dont do. Well at least Volkswagen doesn't do.


                          They don't raise the their costs twice a year by 3.5% to 4 %
                          so that 7% to 8% a year total increase.

                          The Company that does is Cadburys
                          Imagine if Car Companies and Dealers did that..
                          Last edited by PhillipAudiDealer; 01-03-2010, 12:50 PM.
                          Phillip Fairhall
                          Brand Manager
                          Rolfe Renault / Audi Centre Canberra
                          Melrose Drive Phillip ACT

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                          • #43
                            I am unsure why this thread is about dealers?

                            Isn't it actually about VW wanting to provide an indication of price to consumers so they can better choose between a VW and a Ford say.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by mikinoz View Post
                              I am unsure why this thread is about dealers?

                              Isn't it actually about VW wanting to provide an indication of price to consumers so they can better choose between a VW and a Ford say.
                              The OP decided to make wild claims about dealers ripping off the poor unsuspecting public so the thread has continued along that theme.
                              website: www.my-gti.com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                FYI, just saw this press release from FCAI...

                                New Online Calculator Makes Buying a New Car Easier

                                Shopping around to buy a new vehicle will become easier and more user-friendly with vehicle brands introducing a new online price calculator to provide customers with an all-inclusive “drive away” price.

                                The peak body representing the Australian automotive industry, the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI), in partnership with many vehicle brands, has established the calculator following changes to pricing regulations.

                                “The price calculator is a real step forward for new car buyers,” FCAI Chief Executive Andrew McKellar said.

                                “This online tool means customers no longer have to add up all the different state and federal taxes, as well as dealership and insurance charges, when they are comparing new cars,” he said.

                                “This is a commonsense approach and makes it easier for new car buyers to conveniently compare different models online,” Mr McKellar said.

                                The price calculator will allow potential customers to enter their postcode in order to gain a fair indication of how much that vehicle will cost, taking into account insurances and taxes.

                                “This enables customers to receive a good estimate of the drive away price, based on where they live, before visiting a showroom,” Mr McKellar said.

                                “This is another measure that we hope will provide private buyers with renewed confidence to return to the market in greater numbers,” he said.

                                The FCAI acted to assist buyers following changes to the Trade Practices Act. The changes had the unfortunate consequence of brands withdrawing prices from websites because of the variations in stamp duty, registration and insurance charges in different states.


                                MY10 S3 3dr

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