118TSI - General Discussion

[nat225]

apart from my wife's Golf 6 my10 118tsi dsg, my previous Golf 6 GTI and now Golf 6 R and Tiguan 147TSI have all been good.

don't let the infamous 118tsi 1.4L twincharge engine stop you from buying any VAG cars

[MyLastVW]

Hi Brad,
I did a search indeed and found out that a lot is wrong with this engine. However, I was more asking about this specific incident when the car does not respond all together to the throttle.

[MyLastVW]

Thanks for that... the more I read about it, the more I see that 118TSI is clearly the wrong pick out of them all... My concern is that - if VW knows that 118TSI has so much problems, it should pro-actively try to fix them or even providing customers with options. I would trust a manufacturer who is up-front honest than one who tries to hide things...

[MyLastVW]

I got the car towed to the nearest VW dealer. They had a look at it and was told that - after initial diagnostic - an error occurred with the manifold pressure sensor. They will fix this and see if anything else comes up.

[Rawcpoppa]

Thanks for that... the more I read about it, the more I see that 118TSI is clearly the wrong pick out of them all... My concern is that - if VW knows that 118TSI has so much problems, it should pro-actively try to fix them or even providing customers with options. I would trust a manufacturer who is up-front honest than one who tries to hide things...

They all do the same thing depending on the costs. VW will never publicly admit that there is a problem with a part unless forced to do so via a recall. In many cases the failed engine provides some level of power so failure isn't seen as safety related as opposed to when the DSG fails suddenly. Hence the dsg recall.

[brad]

than one who tries to hide things...

VW are the masters of denial & spin - especially in Australia.

[Tobes_WIR35]

VW are the masters of denial & spin - especially in Australia.

The "Joseph Goebbels" of the automotive manufacturing industry??

[regu]

And the Masters of the disappearing 5 year DSG warranty

[MyLastVW]

Hi all, I have been told that the actual problem came from a "faulty cable" to the manifold. I asked more about the issue and was told that the connection of the cable to the manifold unit was faulty, giving out wrong readings.
I am very curious to find out how a cable could become "corroded or broken"...
I can find a lot of issues with manifold on the internet but has anyone faced this exact issue with a "faulty cable"?

[The_Hawk]

In my reading I stumbled across this out of the UK, a very interesting and detailed writeup from a few years back.

The 1.4TSi engine in its Supercharger form ie. 140PS & above was introduced in the Golf 2006 iirc. It's a sleeved cylinder engine, nothing really new there. Manufacturing though has to be to very tight tolerances. Achievement was in power output and lower emission levels. Technology was in the use of a switchable supercharger in addition to the turbocharger to give a fairly constant 2 bar boost from the point the engine starts revving at 1,100 rpm and higher to max rpm. But also to switch off the supercharger boost if driving does not require the torque at normal cruising/driving rpm. (Hence the squeaky clutch noise until it beds in and mechanical clunking from the engine bay)

Until the engine map G4008(Man.)/G4009(DSG) which was introduced in May 2009 (Scirocco MY2010) with the Golf 6 platform electrics (White MFD instead Red MFD), the early maps before this version had the knock sensor input wrongly coded. Since then, although still not perfect, they've had to tweak the maps a little further 2 times and a third time (initial 24S4) after problems started in September 2009 out in Australia with poorer fuel quality available being used by the Mk6 Golf 1.4TSi 160PS owners. This lead eventually to the workshop campaign 24S4 starting out in Australia during May 2010 with maps G5859(M.)/G5860(DSG). A lot of Mk6’s were caught at the Australian docks and updated. The Australian campaign was vigorously enforced with the Golf owners being asked to bring their cars to the dealerships. What has followed is that failures have generally been with Golfs running on the older engine ECU maps and then being updated later or not at all. It has gone generally quiet over there now.

The engine map campaign 24S4 was globally introduced from October 2010 onwards to existing cars in use (problem engines received the new map at misfire problem/repair earlier in the period June – October 2010). I was offered it in June 2010 during its first week of release when mine misfired but as the dealer wasn't talking sense and clutching at straws, I chose to investigate with their permission - see plug gap paragraph below. The factory introduced the revised 24S4 Workshop Campaign engine ECU maps earlier into Scirocco production build, around Wk22/2010, following the Australian experiences.

The 24S4 maps have been further tweaked because of a warm-up problem (which I personally experienced in June 2010). Namely, a misfire at 35'C coolant temperature during warm-up in extremely low humidity air conditions. During early June 2010, a spell of very dry Arctic air settled on the UK and particularly Germany. The forums lit up with posts about misfires on the 1.4 160PS engine during warm-up. Dealers in Germany were changing injectors/coilpacks and getting a no-fix situation. The weather went more humid in July 2010 and the problem went away.

I decided to resolve it a different way as the engine’s problem appeared soon afterwards in a VW bulletin on issue date -12th June 2010 which stated “postpone repairs”. I looked at engine basics and found the plug gaps just a little wider than VW specified. So I bought some spares...... exactly the same! VW specification states 0.80mm to 0.90mm. All the plugs were 0.90 – 0.92mm. So looked up the impact of over gapped plugs used on supercharged engines. Outcome is that the ignition spark gets snuffed out by the airflow into the engine cylinders which leads to cylinder misfiring (obviously!). So I shortened all the gaps to 0.79mm. Wow!... what a different engine. If you think the 1.4TSi engine is good now, try this!!! It totally transforms the engine, not power but no murmuring vibration from what was I thought a reasonably smooth engine and its pick up is now very smooth. Hesitancy and axle tramp banging have gone! And in this year’s dry air like 2010, not a hint of misfiring!
[Subsuently shortened the gap further to 0.74mm (29thou) 19.09.11. See post below 21.09.11. Made some more improvements, so a gap of 0.74mm - 0.79mm (29thou - 31thou) appears to work well]

(NB: You have to be very careful re-gapping fine wire spark plugs that have very small diameter platinum or iridium alloy electrodes. Feeler gauges or wire gauges should be used with gentle care when testing the gap by comparing with the feeler gauge NOT passing the feeler gauge through the gap. Otherwise the central electrode tip will be damaged.)

This spark plug gap change was done to a 2007 Golf 1.4TSi engine at DG Autotech during a visit without the owner aware as part of the problem solving on his engine. He drove out and was soon back to ask what had been changed. So not a one off!

VW have now upgraded the maps to compensate for the 35’C stutter misfire in dry air during warm-up. Those maps were introduced in Dec2010 as G0888(M.)/G8913(DSG) and have become the revised 24S4 installed ECU map standard.

People who, soon after taking delivery, re-mapped their engine ECUs which had those early maps, ie production build prior the MY2010 introduction in May 2009, recognised by the red MFD in the dash (Maps G2*** & G3***) will have avoided the knock sensor issue if the map coding was correctly written using the knock sensor signals as I know one tuner company popular on this forum board has done.

The problem is....... one has to realise that this engine is a real pressure cooker, 160PS out of a 1.4ltr engine !! ..... so, if the engine is damaged by misfiring, it may, despite updating the VW map version or later on in useage re-mapping with a 3rd party, continue to deteriorate over time, albeit as a much lesser pace. An engine can go on quite normally until the damaged part (piston/piston rings) finally do fail and failure is usually catastrophic, good one day, karput the next. Or it starts to turn into a ball of misfires with dash lights on over a number of drives. To reach this, can be thousands of miles after any initial rectification work (updated VW ECU map, new injectors, coil packs etc....) is done. Failure will depend on whether mechanical failure was initiated during the initial misfire problem reported. Failure will also depend on driving style and fuel source used (ie. quality [supermarket v oil company branded; 95RON v 98RON]) - best to feed it well on branded fuel imo, although this is not a rock solid guarantee! One characteristic of looming failure is the oil consumption increasing but you would need to dip the engine oil sump weekly to see this happening and it is not always the case before failure. ...... as said its a real pressure cooker of an engine.

And, not all engines prior to mid 2010 will have problems as there are so many factors to take into account in how the Scirocco is used such as: driven/maintained/fuelled and so on.

But ..... the failures are not coming from the factory built to 24S4 map standard like the MY2011, that I am aware of.
Hence from the above script why on this topic the posts for engines in the Scirocco made prior to mid 2010 (Wk22) are not a useful comparison.

If you don’t know the build, it can be worked out here.

MY2011 engines are not carrying any warning bulletins on this subject that I am aware of.

There was also during a week in 2009 when a batch of faulty coils were made
Along with problem injectors over a longer period in 2009. I have the problematical injectors supposedly...... :shrug:.


The rest about coil packs, injectors, high pressure fuel valves and other parts, are attempts at work by the dealers I believe trying to put right engines with other problems or misfire damage in its early stages.

Obviously there can still be individual engine component failures and all manufacturers have that sort of occurrence.... statistical fact!

The Scirocco is not the only model affected and the problems stem back to the early Golfs from 2006 with this engine. And as said above, the overall % is not a major but is disappointing to the individual owner when it happens. But VW are being reasonable and taking back the engines and giving owners a new one as their warranty covers without much question. Same as other major car manufacturers in the past, here’s a couple......

Rover dealers used to on first service at 10,000 miles whip out the engine of their Rover 200’s around the late 1990’s if, as the technicians were instructed to check for engine noises indicating the cylinder sleeves had come loose. And they did the engine change on the day of the service before the owner came back to collect.

Or all BMW engines used in the Manchester/Liverpool corridor of a certain design around 2002ish iirc where a harden coating chemical (Nikasil cylinder bore linings) was used in cylinder lining protection of aluminium alloy engine blocks. They had to replace the engine with a sleeved version or cast iron block version for all the owners instead. This was because Stanlow Oil Refinery at Ellesmere Port produces fuel that is more sulphurous and caused the cylinder wall's hard coating to be eroded very quickly by the acid formed in combustion.

Source: Scirocco Central • View topic - 1.4 160ps 2011 - anyone had issues?

[brad]

Some good info there, particularly regarding spark plug gap.

Why anyone would use feeler gauges to gap a spark plug I have no idea. Wire gauges are best & you use them as a simple go-nogo gauge. If you feel rsistance you don't continue.

[xcbarny]

2nd Hand 118 TSI buying advice

Hey all

Sorry if this has been covered before, I did do a search and looked through the 2nd GTI thread, but it didn't seem relevant to the 7 sp 118 TSI model.

Please direct me to the relevant thread if there is one.

So I'm looking to buy a Golf wagon with the 7sp 118 TSI motor. Until 2 days ago, I'd never heard of the issues with the DSG. I currently own a 2007 Audi A3 with 1.8 - 118 TFSI motor, 6 sp Auto, and its been great for us, and our experience owning this has led me to look at the slightly bigger and cheaper Golf Wagon. We're also considering an Octavia with the similiar engine ( 118 or 103 Motor ).

Needs to be less than $20 k, which is giving us a few options of a 2011 Golf comfortline wagon (MY11) over on Carsales, with around 50k on the clock.

I've had a look at one, and in the log book, its always been serviced at the dealer, and last year had a recall done.

Looking at the thread about the DSG issues is terrifying, but how common is the issue actually? And on a car that has had the recall done, how likely is that the issue will show up? Or is it just safer to hold on for a 2012 model?

Any advise would be appreciated.
Cheers.

[brad]

118tsi Golf engine isn't the same engine as the 118tsi Audi or Octavia (both have a 1.8L with single turbo and are generally reliable). It's a 1.4L twincharger. It's a variable quality piece of rubbish. You might get a good one but probably not.

The DSG is a 7 speed dry clutch. It's also a piece of rubbish. Unfortunately the Octavia has this abortion of a gearbox mated to the 1.8tsi.

Do yourself a favour & either buy a manual or look at an Octavia vRS or Golf GTI as they have the wet 6 speed DSG which is very good.

If you look at one of the AWD variants (yeti or tiguan) they have a different 7 speed DSG and it's reliable as well.

Buy a 118tsi twincharger with DSG7 at your own risk.

There are heaps of threads - they are usually near the top of the Polo or Golf forum but also in the Octavia & Superb sections for the DSG7.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f112/golf-118-tsi-engine-failures-resolved-via-service-campaign-24s4-44540.html

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f112/118tsi-general-discussion-37140.html

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f112/golf-7-speed-dsg-shudder-clutch-issues-45873.html

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f128/polo-gti-high-oil-usage-discussion-thread-57967.html

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f128/my13-5-gti-dsg-shuddering-d2-105452.html

[xcbarny]

Thanks for your reply. So did the engine not improve after 2012?

[brad]

Thanks for your reply. So did the engine not improve after 2012?

There has been no change to the basic design and build quality of the engine. They've tinkered and made minor improvements.

There is a reason why that engine is no longer offered in the line up.

Read the links I posted.