Pacific is New Sportline and Undermines value of GT TDI

[Timbo]

It's all about "market segmentation" and "product positioning" (see Marketing 101) and if done correctly, the GT TDI and the TDI Pacific will always appeal to different segments and retain different resale values.

[metrolex]

GTi instead!

Well, I just had my wife drive the range (GTi, then GT TDI and then Pacific) and sorry to say it she cannot handle the dead spot when you start off in the TDIs and then the sudden surge (especially in the GT). We do a lot of stop start driving (only 10,000km per annum).

So we've decided to cancel the GT TDI and are considering a GTi.

As we're stepping out of a Volvo V40 it's still a big reduction in our carbon footprint.

Also, if you go by the technical specs, the 103TDI does not have a particulate filter whereas the GT TDI does . . . not sure why, but it suggests the 103TDI in the Pacific is not as clean as it could, and should, be.

It's also been a bit of a shock seeing the price of diesel lately around $0.15 per litre more than premium unleaded (even so the TDIs still cost around $2.20 less per 100km than the 2.0l petrol-engined cars).

Happy to hear any defences of the GT TDI and its pick up from rest . . . I agree its another story once you're rolling but the GTi is still 1.3s faster to 100 (on paper, anyway).

(And thanks Tim for your more thorough analysis of the Pacific/GT differences and supportive comments.)

[orsegtsport]

Well, I just had my wife drive the range (GTi, then GT TDI and then Pacific) and sorry to say it she cannot handle the dead spot when you start off in the TDIs and then the sudden surge (especially in the GT). We do a lot of stop start driving (only 10,000km per annum).

Happy to hear any defences of the GT TDI and its pick up from rest . . . I agree its another story once you're rolling but the GTi is still 1.3s faster to 100 (on paper, anyway).

That split second transition from totally underwhelming acceleration, to all hell breaking loose, is half the fun!

Seriously though, I find that it is only really noticeable when you are driving the car quite hard in lower gears. Once the DSG has adapted to your driving style, and if you drive the car fairly sedately, the acceleration is seamless and effortless.

If you do a lot of stop start driving then the TDI probably isn't for you, as they are at their best when cruising. My GT TDI just eats up the HWY km effortlessly and in total comfort (very smooth and quiet at 110 km). It's not just a good cruiser either, it is extremely capable when pushed hard, and I'd be very surprised if a stock GTI could shake me on a twisty hill climb.

Yep the GTI is quicker in terms of acceleration figures, but in real world driving where torque is king, the GT TDI will feel every bit as quick, if not faster. It is simply effortless - overtake a road train in 5th or 6th cog in both cars and see which one does it faster

Obviously, where the TDI's have a real advantage is economy. I've averaged 5.8l/100 km (manually calculated, as the trip computer is very optimistic) in the 5 months I've had it, and it is getting better with every tank. I can get as low as 4.6l/100 km on a relaxed country run too, the whole while knowing that I can pass a road train like it's standing still if the need arrives.

Still, if fuel economy (and CO2 output) is not paramount in your reckoning, then go the GTI, as there is no doubt that overall, it offers a more rewarding driving experience.

[jb747]

Make sure you have a drive of the GT TSI....that might fit you better than a GTI.

[BarneyBoy]

Make sure you have a drive of the GT TSI....that might fit you better than a GTI.

^ True.

And there's no dead spot (if there is one in the TDI ) straight off idle.

[metrolex]

Thanks, Orsegtsport for that commentary . . . I imagine you're covering many more k's each year than me, and maybe not so much in the city, so I appreciate your thoughts on stop-start vs more open road driving.

The other comments on the GT 1.4 (thanks jb747 and BarneyBoy) were also helpful. I was most impressed by the TSI when I drove it before settling on the GT TDI. It's rearing to go from 1,000 rpm (ie standstill) so possibly a better choice for city motoring; similar economy to the diesel but lower cost of fuel.

Using the published fuel consumption figures (about which I am skeptical, more so when it comes to petrol engines) and assuming diesel at 1.65 and premium unleaded at 1.55, the fuel cost per 100km for the GT TDI is $10.40 and the TSI and GTi, respectively, cost $1.54 and $2.16 more than that per 100km . . . ie $154 and $216 extra per 10,000km traveled.

I did mention the TSI to my wife this afternoon but after waiting four months for the GT diesel the reaction wasn't good (we can get a GTi in six weeks), so it is looking like the GTi for us, although I do like the way that TSI goes.

Is the jury still out on the long-term durability of the 1.4? Probably not an issue being such a well-engineered car, but I suppose having two chargers is one more thing to go wrong than on a single charger engine.

I don't know if any of the TSI fans noticed, but the print advertising for the TSI showed a TSI at a petrol station at which all of the fuel pumps were marked "unleaded", evidently digitally manipulated to be so.

Given the TSI runs on 95 or 98 octane fuel only (certainly not regular unleaded) you have to wonder what the marketing people at VGA were thinking. Probably a contravention of s52 of the TPA to suggest the TSI will run on low octane fuel!

[benough]

Permit me to reiterate:

The Pacific has exactly the same spec as the old Sportline but with DSC included. While the Comfortline and Sportline variants no longer exist, the Pacific = Sportline + DSC ($790).

A GT TDI used to cost $1,210 more than a Sportline but now costs $5,000 more than a Pacific (which is a Sportline+DSC).

So, to maintain the same price differential and value for money the TDI should only cost $33,700 (ie $32,490 + $1,210), not $37,490.

(Okay, the GT Sport has Sports Suspension and winter driving program, the latter about as useful in Australia as the heated front seats and electric(!) lumbar support.)

I had a TDI Comfortline and it got written of at the ripe old age of 3 weeks.

With insurance I was able to go to a TDI GT Sport.

It's a completely different car. The comfortline was a solid car but the GT sits on the road a lot better.

Sure you still get a similiar diesel, 25kw more, but the tech in the GT engine is like having your cake and eating it too. A variable vane turbo, exhaust gas recirculation, particle filter, common rail injection, balancing camshaft for less noise. To go much faster and blow no smoke and still have amazing economy, what else do you want?

Spend a few buck$ on ErWin and see how amazing the engines are.

I think they are worth every cent

[vanDub]

Sure you still get a similiar diesel, 25kw more, but the tech in the GT engine is like having your cake and eating it too. A variable vane turbo, exhaust gas recirculation, particle filter, common rail injection, balancing camshaft for less noise.

Common Rail Diesel - I wish. As discussed elsewhere Common Rail has only recently (last 2 months) been introduced for 103Kw diesel. The 125Kw is still Pumpe-Duse.

[metrolex]

I guess the final word on the relative value of the GT TDI and the Pacific TDI is that in the Passat range the 125kw TDI option comes with 17" rims for $2,500 more than the cost of the 103kw TDI Passat.

In the Golf range the 125kw TDI costs $5,000 more than the 103kw TDI Pacific and comes with 17" rims and sports suspension.

So unless there's some other difference between the GT and the Pacific models that's $2,500 VGA is charging for sports suspension . . . how do you feel about VGA pricing now?

Too bad VGA doesn't make the 125kw engine an option in the Golf Pacific as it does in the Passat range. But why would it when it can cream $5,000 for a bunch of add-ons worth far less?

The strong Aussie dollar allows car makers to cut prices or up equipment levels, the latter being the far more profitable option for manufacturers.

VGA has shown this with the extra features in the $32,490 TDI Pacific.

It is a shame that VGA doesn't adopt the same approach with the GT (and GTi, for that matter) and up the equipment levels or at least offer some price breaks on the overpriced options.

[STV4SYT]

It's all about "market segmentation" and "product positioning" (see Marketing 101) and if done correctly, the GT TDI and the TDI Pacific will always appeal to different segments and retain different resale values.

This still applies.

Pacific doesnt appeal to me, GT does, so therefore it comes at a premium.

Obviously GT doesnt appeal to you so buy the Pacific.


Done.

As for resale, the same will apply, GT will appeal to a certain market and so will the pacific so therefore the resale values will be reflected in that.

[Mischa]

the single biggest and most important difference between the pacific and the GT is the GT gets a bigger turbo and injectors and hence can be remapped to 157kw whereas the pacific can only be remapped to 125kw

[STV4SYT]

OK, so ive done a small bit of research

Differences are as follows

Engine - 103kw (320nm) vs 125kw(350nm)
Wheels - 17" vs 16"
Gearbox - Pacific has no Steering Wheel Paddles with DSG
Suspension - Sports vs Standard
Bumpers - Different (more agressive)Styling and exposed Exhaust
DPF - Has vs Has Not
Interior - Black Onyx (GT) vs Titanium
Winter Driving Program (useful.... not)


guess im bored at work today....

[Mischa]

as well as red seats and full sized mfd.

[STV4SYT]

as well as red seats and full sized mfd.

Pacific does have sports seats, albeit black but it does have the MFD plus (full size)

http://www.volkswagen.com.au/vwcms_publish/etc/medialib/vwcms/virtualmaster/en_au/common/pdf.Par.0012.File.pdf

[GTom]

These are the differences....

- Winter Driving Program
- Front Lower air intake
- Radiator grill surround in charcoal colour
- Unique rear bumper with dual exhaust pipes
- 17" Wheels
- Boost pressure gauge and coolant temp. warning light (TSI ONLY)
- Black Onyx inserts in Dash and doors
- Gear Shift Paddles

- Height
- track

FACTORY OPTIONS ONLY AVAILABLE ON GT
- Alarm
- Bi-Xenons
- Blue Graphite paint job

Now my 2c...

I bought the TSI DSG and still would have over the Pacific TDI as its only about 2-3 Grand difference and the available options and extra things you get i think is worth it. On top of that you get a great piece of engineering (t/c s/c engine) and there arent too many (as far as i see Sydney) GTs out there. Probably would not have gone the TDI 125kw as it was about 500-1000 out of my budget and would have meant i couldn't get some of the options i got....