R32 DSG Mechatronic Replacement

[Treza360]

I think the thing to recognise is, is that the DSG gearbox looks to be more prone to failure than what a conventional manual or a conventional automatic gearbox is.

You don't see people jumping up and down all over the internet because conventional gearboxes have failed regardless of the make yet no one can deny that there seems to be quite a bit of noise in regards to DSG issues (mainly mechatronic untis).

Yes it may still only be a small proportion in comparison to overall DSG units sold but it still looks to be more than what is generally accepted as being normal.

Cheers,
Trent

[ExRexer]

I've got to stop reading these sorts of threads before I start to find issues with my DSG......

[Maverick]

I'll post when I get the car back for a post replacement drive. I am concerned with little over a year left on warranty for the go forward, that there wont be any extended warranty for the part itself - as advised by the dealer.

Why would there be an extended warranty on the part? It was replaced under warranty.

Might contact VW Australia on point, as if it is true that VW USA is providing additional warranty then we should have the same offer here.

VW USA are offering a 10 year warranty (with conditions) and they are offering a 10 year warranty on the eye level brake light fitted to GTI and R32 models (again with conditions). These are not offered in Australia, we're a different market with different consumer laws and complaining to VW about this is absolutely pointless as they have nothing to gain by offering the same.

You have the option to buy an extended warranty for under $2000 which covers you for another 3 years so if it is a concern buy that for piece of mind, I'm sure you will get your moneys worth from it.

[Maverick]

I think the thing to recognise is, is that the DSG gearbox looks to be more prone to failure than what a conventional manual or a conventional automatic gearbox is.

How many gearboxes have actually failed? A few in Australia? Very few DSG gearboxes are replaced both in Australia and overseas. What do you consider failure? Perfectly safe to be driven but a few anomalies?

You don't see people jumping up and down all over the internet because conventional gearboxes have failed regardless of the make yet no one can deny that there seems to be quite a bit of noise in regards to DSG issues (mainly mechatronic untis).

There are plenty of people jumping up and down about clutch failures however. The DSG is two conventional manual gearboxes in one and is a bullet proof design that has been around since 2002/2003 (6 speed wet clutch) however there was a run of mechatronics units (mainly in 200 that had one or more faulty solenoid that operate out of spec.

In the vast majority of mechatronics "failures" the gearbox is not being damaged and can continue to be driven with some minor anomalies in it's operation so there is no need to rush out and pay for a new mechatronics unit if the car is out of warranty. Volkswagen have been covering them out of warranty and DSG and mechatronics repairs will be the norm soon so the cost will be dramatically lower in having them repaired.

Volkswagen dealers also have to follow new procedures for testing as they were replacing mechatronic units that were not faulty.

[VW Convert]

You don't see people jumping up and down all over the internet because conventional gearboxes have failed regardless of the make yet no one can deny that there seems to be quite a bit of noise in regards to DSG issues (mainly mechatronic untis).

Checked out the countless instances of Polo GTI gearbox failures on this forum?

Cheers

[jazd]

In the vast majority of mechatronics "failures" the gearbox is not being damaged and can continue to be driven with some minor anomalies in it's operation so there is no need to rush out and pay for a new mechatronics unit if the car is out of warranty.

Yeah this is why I'm not particularly worried, its not like the car doesn't drive OK, its just a bit jerky.. I would be pretty pissed off if it totally blew up.

Volkswagen have been covering them out of warranty and DSG and mechatronics repairs will be the norm soon so the cost will be dramatically lower in having them repaired.

Really? I assume they would only repair it for the original owner though?

[GTIWesome]

.... we're a different market with different consumer laws and complaining to VW about this is absolutely pointless as they have nothing to gain by offering the same.

I am aware of the so called lemon laws in the States, and also of comparatively weak level of consumer protection here in Australia. I wasn’t implying leaning on VW Aust from a legal perspective.

I doubt there are any official numbers on DSG replacements in Australia or globally VW has released, though on a trawl of a number of forums, DSG related issues appears to be a topic raised on a regular basis. For all the pro and anti DSG sentiment of some posters, a reasonable person would assume that the number of complaints, as well as reports of actual replacements by posters equates to a problem that has substance. At some point this will start affecting sales, if it hasn’t already.

For instance – I personally know 5 other current VW DSG owners (Mrk V Golf’s & Jetta’s, age group is 27- late 40’s, non forum fanboi’s), and from this group 2 (including me) have had DSG replacements. All but 1 have voiced issues with DSG “idiosyncrasies” at some point, and 2 of the group (not including me) are adamant that they won’t buy another DSG in the near future based on concerns with the technology. A small test group, though I bet not an uncommon snapshot.

Sure if we all sit back and cop it sweet then little will happen. But as people actually make some noise, VW Aust will pay more attention to the issue – VW Aust may have ‘something to gain’ and may act further as the level of consumer concern increasingly hits their bottom line, and / or otherwise adversely affects their brand.

Volkswagen have been covering them out of warranty and DSG and mechatronics repairs will be the norm soon so the cost will be dramatically lower in having them repaired.

So VW Aust are starting to take notice! Provides a little more comfort to hear this, though it’s not a formal warranty-like obligation I’d like to see. To anyone who has had DSG replacements – contact VW Aust and voice your concern with your go forward coverage!

[gh172]

I've had my dsg gti since FEB 08 without any issues whatsoever . Having said that, if I was going to buy again I would buy a manual without a second thought. As much as I love the DSG transmission I feel I have no choice but to buy an extended warranty out of fear that it will go terribly wrong at some point. And that annoys me no end because if I owned a manual I wouldn't bother with it. Maybe I'm being a little paranoid but I've read so many DSG related posts on different forums over the last 3 years to really concern me. Obviously for as many problems reported there are 100 as many that are fine. It's just the costs involved in repairing or replacing these gearboxes that worries me. As I mentioned earlier, I love my DSG transmission but I think I'd be just as happy with a manual without the what if's. I recommended one of my friends buy a DSG equipped car over a year ago and he has been without his car twice for extended periods due to his gearbox already!

[Maverick]

I am aware of the so called lemon laws in the States, and also of comparatively weak level of consumer protection here in Australia. I wasn’t implying leaning on VW Aust from a legal perspective.

I doubt there are any official numbers on DSG replacements in Australia or globally VW has released, though on a trawl of a number of forums, DSG related issues appears to be a topic raised on a regular basis. For all the pro and anti DSG sentiment of some posters, a reasonable person would assume that the number of complaints, as well as reports of actual replacements by posters equates to a problem that has substance. At some point this will start affecting sales, if it hasn’t already.

Volkswagen have sold over 3 million DSG gearboxes, the few number of complains on forums are not indicative of the number that fail either as customers that are happy with their DSG don't post and neither do they search for others without problems to post their story.

Sales are clearly not affected by the few people with problems, VW worldwide are selling more and more DSG cars each month.

For instance – I personally know 5 other current VW DSG owners (Mrk V Golf’s & Jetta’s, age group is 27- late 40’s, non forum fanboi’s), and from this group 2 (including me) have had DSG replacements. All but 1 have voiced issues with DSG “idiosyncrasies” at some point, and 2 of the group (not including me) are adamant that they won’t buy another DSG in the near future based on concerns with the technology. A small test group, though I bet not an uncommon snapshot.

DSG replacement is not in any way equal to mechatronics replacement. I doubt that any of you have had DSG replacements but have in fact had a mechatronics replacement which is a far simpler process. I know plenty of people with DSG gearboxes and very few have had any problems.

Sure if we all sit back and cop it sweet then little will happen. But as people actually make some noise, VW Aust will pay more attention to the issue – VW Aust may have ‘something to gain’ and may act further as the level of consumer concern increasingly hits their bottom line, and / or otherwise adversely affects their brand.

By all means contact them but at the end of the day it will make no difference in a market like Australia especially as VW already know the small number of mechatronics that have actually failed. If you want to know how many have failed get friendly with your local service manager and he'll tell you how rarely they get replaced.

So VW Aust are starting to take notice! Provides a little more comfort to hear this, though it’s not a formal warranty-like obligation I’d like to see. To anyone who has had DSG replacements – contact VW Aust and voice your concern with your go forward coverage!

Once again you're drawing inferences from where there are none to be drawn. VW like many manufacturers repair cars out of warranty for a period based on a number of factors including where the car was serviced, how long out of warranty it is and the type of failure. For example the AC compressor problem where VW will fix it >1 year out of warranty with no costs to the customers.

[jazd]

Anyone have any good info on the the mechatronic unit is, what it does and what the cost is for its replacement vs replacing the whole gearbox?

[GTIWesome]

Sorry I meant mechatronic replacement when i posted "DSG replacement".

....the few number of complains on forums are not indicative of the number that fail either as customers that are happy with their DSG don't post and neither do they search for others without problems to post their story.

I agree that the complaints on forums are not indicative of the overall number of failures...yet maybe because the majority of forum posters no doubt fit the stereotype... ie under 35, male and liking cars to the extent that they waste hours per week arguing on online forums

Forums dont represent any true cross section of VW owners. Eg - the Mrs is internet savy, yet she'd never post on online forums for car issues. Same can be said for any number of my friends and relatives.

Subjective to the reader, and Maverick you have made your sentiments on the issue pretty clear , but to many, this is very much a concern.

By all means contact them but at the end of the day it will make no difference in a market like Australia especially as VW already know the small number of mechatronics that have actually failed.

Yep I will, and ill report back with my response. Query - VW may know the number of mechatronic units that have failed, but does the public have access to formal data?

[Maverick]

I agree that the complaints on forums are not indicative of the overall number of failures...yet maybe because the majority of forum posters no doubt fit the stereotype... ie under 35, male and liking cars to the extent that they waste hours per week arguing on online forums

*cough*

Forums dont represent any true cross section of VW owners. Eg - the Mrs is internet savy, yet she'd never post on online forums for car issues. Same can be said for any number of my friends and relatives.

Also take into account that people don't post if they've happy with something and that you do get people signing up purely to post about a problem.

Subjective to the reader, and Maverick you have made your sentiments on the issue pretty clear , but to many, this is very much a concern.

I will admit that yes it's a slight concern but as I said it's at the point where mechatronics units will be able to be repaired and the dsg gearboxes rebuilt plus in nearly every mechatronic failure it's purely an issue at low speed and not one that will damage the gearbox so replacement isn't really required. I would get the extended warranty no matter what as the AC compressor is much more likely to spit pieces of metal throughout your AC system or the camshaft lobe will wear out spewing fuel into your engine

Yep I will, and ill report back with my response. Query - VW may know the number of mechatronic units that have failed, but does the public have access to formal data?

I've seen some figures but I'm not sure how accurate they are and they show the actual number replaced is very very low. The dealers don't replace many mechatronics either and this is across the world, you can see some comments like this one from an Audi guy in the UK.

"I have worked for an Audi centre for just over two years now. Its hard to talk about reliability because I only ever see cars when they are broken. But I'd say up to 60,000 miles DSG is pretty bullet proof and beyond that your looking for trouble. We do on average 1 DSG mechatronics unit every 2 or 3 months or so. SO yes that is the bit that goes wrong, and Its not cheep, £2-3k i think. Complete box it £5K.

Compaired to the multi-tronic for example where we have a fault with one, on average once or twice a week and manuals where we might have a fault once or twice a year, usually worn sycro. (not counting clutches, we do hundreds)

SO to sum up, gearbox's. I would always go for the manual, consider DSG if milage going to be low, and couldnt recomend Muti to anyone. Normal tip-tronic auto is bullet proof too."

source: DSG reliability

[kctt]

My DSG has been great, smooth as silk when shifting et al. However, I recently noticed a trait which I am not sure if it's related.

When shifting down in manual mode (say from 5th to 4th), the power cuts off momentarily. By that I mean, stepping on the accelerator after shifting and the car would not accelerate at all. However, if I downshift with my foot still pressed on the accelerator, then I would not loose any power - car accelerates as it should in a lower gear.

Has anyone experienced that?

[Wolfgang]

When shifting down in manual mode (say from 5th to 4th), the power cuts off momentarily. By that I mean, stepping on the accelerator after shifting and the car would not accelerate at all. However, if I downshift with my foot still pressed on the accelerator, then I would not loose any power - car accelerates as it should in a lower gear.

Has anyone experienced that?

My GTI has started doing this intermittently of late, especially from 5th to 4th it will catch when changing. Also seems to be riding the clutch on take off more than it used to.

Only has 15 thou kays on it.

[kctt]

My GTI has started doing this intermittently of late, especially from 5th to 4th it will catch when changing. Also seems to be riding the clutch on take off more than it used to.

Only has 15 thou kays on it.

Anyone else? Surely the DSG shouldn't behave this way..