2 stroke oil (2SO) as an additive to diesel fuel

[Amalgam]

Ive got an old Patrol and the Passat. Ive been reading about it on a 4WD forum and was not convinced. Now after reading this, I think its worth a go, for both cars!

Because of the age of your vehicles and the assumed milage, would you be so kind as to report back your results after 1 and 2 tankful.

Although I expect a reduction in diesel clatter and increase in smoothness, both are highly subjective and prone to operator bias. I would be very keen on your fuel consumption reading both before and after to judge if mine were an aberration.

Thanks

[JB's Dub]

Yeah, No problems. The Passat is driven by my wife which does not do many kays while doing food shopping and running kids around, and as we live in the Dandenongs, it all up and down hill, so consumption probably wont be noticed as its almost impossible to get an average! But certainly Ill be keeping a close eye (or ear) on noise and 'feel'.

[kaanage]

The thing is that Biodiesel is chemically quite different from mineral diesel - sure they are both long chain hydrocarbons, but bio has a lot of OH group's and various aromatics that arent present in mineral diesel. Bio is a fuel made of methyl esters - its edible, for crying out loud (not that it tastes any good!).

And yet, the net effect is not a night and day difference in engine performance - its significant, but its not miraculous.

Then theres the aforementioned theory of a healthy improvement in fuel economy with just the addition of a few percent 2SO to regular diesel...

All this to say nothing really.... just wanting to explain my, lets say, healthy scepticism.

Yes, in the case of biodiesel vs normal diesel, "Oils ain't oils" as the old ad went

I think a large part of the beneficial effects of straight biodiesel is due to it being far more homogeneous since there are only a limited number of methyl esters that result from the extraction from the raw biological oil stock. The burn characteristics of these esters will be similar so you get a well controlled burn.

Normal diesel, on the other hand, being merely a distillation fraction (hence the alternative name distillate) that meets the cetane, vapor pressure and viscosity requirements (and which varies according the temperature zone it is intended for) can consist of a vast multitude of hydrocarbons molecules with a large variation in the burn characteristics.

I have a gut feeling (OK, this is speculation but I'll put it up there) that all diesel additives, including 2 stroke oil, introduce a chemical blend that has very specific makeup with one of the major requirements being that they burn cleanly and ignite at a designated temperature. This would mean that the ignition and consequent burn of the fuel droplets sprayed into the combustion chamber by the injectors would be far more predictable as the additive molecules would act as an ignition point for the rest of the droplet and the prevention of late ignition droplets results in more complete (and hence cleaner) combustion and smoother running.

The cleaning properties of the additives wouldn't need high concentrations either if you think about how much detergent you add to your dishwashing basin.

The difference I see with 2 stroke oil vs other additives is that although it might not have been specifically concocted for diesel usage, it serendipitously has the ignition point in the desired range for diesel running (whatever the reason) and we use far more of it than specific additives since it is so cheap plus that it is primarily a lubricant. The makes the cleaning effect better, even if the combustion effects end up the same making 2 stroke oil, overall, a very good additive

I hope this speculative thinking doesn't fall too far outside the guidelines of the thread since I feel it is quite logical given the know characteristics of normal diesel and the requirements for 2 stroke oil.

[gldgti]

Sounds plausible, for sure

[Ryeman]

<yetiownersclub.co.uk> has v interesting DPF/2SO discussion in the skoda yeti owners - technical section by 'chocki'
with lots of technical links.
It's a current 2015 discussion and for those 'into' 2SO worth going to, I'd think.
maybe someone can do a link ?.

[CardinalSin]

<yetiownersclub.co.uk> has v interesting DPF/2SO discussion in the skoda yeti owners - technical section by 'chocki'
with lots of technical links.
It's a current 2015 discussion and for those 'into' 2SO worth going to, I'd think.
maybe someone can do a link ?.

DPF Information - Skoda Yeti Forums - Page 1

[Amalgam]

DPF Information - Skoda Yeti Forums - Page 1

Just beat me to it.

It is a great read, but make sure you put away some time before starting.

[CardinalSin]

Just beat me to it.

It is a great read, but make sure you put away some time before starting.

I read it before I posted the link and then spent more time reading some of the Yeti stuff. Hopefully i've solved the rattle as a result.

All very positive apart from the usual negative posts towards the end. I'm sure they don't read it all, they certainly don't try it and their thoughts would be far more valid if they came from a more informed, constructive viewpoint.

It was very interesting in regards to extending the DPF life and possible combustion changes. Great when you get someone who is so enthusiastic who gets right into it.

[Preen59]

I would have to say plausible. I have no information to prove or disprove that hypothesis but it definitely sounds promising. Haha.

[Greg Roles]

Jesus, just go for it, it's a tiny percentage at 200ml a tank. I can pretty much guarantee your engine, and DPF is ingesting a lot more oil via the PCV system, and more lubricant in the high pressure common rail pump and injectors can only be a good thing. Morey's lists their product as Hydrocarbon distillate in their MSDS, and it sure looks and feels like two stroke oil to me.

As for your theory Kaarnage, it sounds fine, but too much postulating and not enough action in this thread!

[kaanage]

As for your theory Kaarnage, it sounds fine, but too much postulating and not enough action in this thread!

So what do you propose for more action?

I don't have access to a Ricardo Proteus to do the full combustion testing and I don't have the machinery to pull down my engine for component inspection.

Or are you referring to the big turbo and injectors that are still sitting in my shed?

[Greg Roles]

OK I reread that, and it would only be true IF the two stroke had a higher flash point than standard diesel, like Methanol does. Methanol does indeed help a better burn of a diesel charge as it burns after the diesel has ignited, and combustion temps rise, helping burn leftover fuel to a degree. You'd have to try and find out a flash point for the two stroke in question vs the local diesel.

I thought the whole point was lubrication, and if it so happens it drops the soot level, then that's only a plus. Impossible to know with a DPF in place, but the older diesel boys swear by it, and it could just be that it cleans up their otherwise dirty injectors, dropping obvious soot.

I run Moreys smoke killer, as it's not expensive, purely for lube, and the weak point of my CR is the fuel pump from what I've read.

[kaanage]

Here's the MSDS of a cheap TCW-3 which is the minimum grade of 2 stroke oil that gets discussed

http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/MSDS%20Download/30082%20Outboard%202-Stroke%20TCW-3.pdf

The listed flash point is > 200 degrees Celcius which seems rather high. Taken as Fahrenheit, it's around 100degrees Celcius which is consistent with other TCW-3 MSDS that I've come across like these

https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=76849&docFormat=PDF

MatWeb - The Online Materials Information Resource
Mobil Outboard Plus

JASO FB, FC, FD all have 70 degrees Celcius as the certification requirement for the flash point

I would think almost all 2 stroke oils would meet the criteria that you have specified since the common flash point requirement for diesel is > 52 degrees Celcius.

The autoignition temperature would also needed to be investigated, I guess.

I feel the lubrication of 2 stroke oil is a given since that it the primary purpose of it in more demanding enviroments than the fuel system of diesel engines. Given this, I think the other benefits that many people have experienced is what is of greater interest.

[Amalgam]

OK I reread that, and it would only be true IF the two stroke had a higher flash point than standard diesel, like Methanol does. Methanol does indeed help a better burn of a diesel charge as it burns after the diesel has ignited, and combustion temps rise, helping burn leftover fuel to a degree. You'd have to try and find out a flash point for the two stroke in question vs the local diesel.

I thought the whole point was lubrication, and if it so happens it drops the soot level, then that's only a plus. Impossible to know with a DPF in place, but the older diesel boys swear by it, and it could just be that it cleans up their otherwise dirty injectors, dropping obvious soot.

I run Moreys smoke killer, as it's not expensive, purely for lube, and the weak point of my CR is the fuel pump from what I've read.

Flash point of BP Ultimate 61.5C min 66C typical

[url=http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-country/en_au/products-services/fuels/ultimate-fuels/BP_Ultimate_Diesel.pdf]

Flash point of Castrol Activ 2T 86C

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/C09BA64774EB9DDB80257D1100826772/$File/Castrol_Activ_2T_4100595_2013_10.pdf

[Amalgam]

Deleted.

Double posting.