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the Official 16v thread

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  • #31
    lol, Valver, not everyone can afford turbos!!!!


    yes breathing on a valver is important,good flowing inlet manifold and ported inlets on the head.

    180-190bhp should be ball park for a sorted 2.0 16v
    Velly
    '91 2.0 8v GTI

    Originally posted by DubSteve
    I have wood thinking about you

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Preen59 View Post
      10%? That's well worth it!

      Yep KR dude.
      I told you ages ago that the cast exhaust manifold is good but a set of 4-1 extractors are going to yield gains over it. Especially considering you want to race yours bro!
      sigpic
      Mk2 GTI 2 door 1.9l 8v turbo 1st mk2 1st engineered water vw nats 09
      Mk1 twin eng twin turb
      scirocco gti 2.1l 16v turb 6spd
      Audi A4 B5 1.8t

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by velly_16v_cab View Post
        lol, Valver, not everyone can afford turbos!!!!
        And some people don't want one either..

        Turbo, Shmurbo..

        APR Tuned | KW Suspension | INA Engineering | Mocal Oil Control |
        Website: http://www.tprengineering.com
        Email: chris@tprengineering.com

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        • #34
          4 branch Manifolds (Exatractors) make one hell of a difference!
          Esp at the top end where a 16v tends to live most of it life.
          My mates 2.0 16v GTI Egnineering jetta had a polished and ported standard cast manifold and he was told that will do him. After alot of playing about he later changed it for Ashley manifold and gained 10BHP @ wheels and broke the 190bhp @ flywheel.
          He now fits them to all this 16vs builds (he has since built 2 mk1 16v's)[/QUOTE]

          You don't get BHP at the wheels,it's at the fly.
          Widebody Cayman S Turbo, 83 ur Quattro
          2000 996 C4 cab,12 Scirocco R OEM+ STG2+
          72 914 (3.2S boxster pwr), 92 G60 Corrado
          76 Scirocco(TFSI and DSG) 2018 Tiguan,Eureka,81 924.

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          • #35
            160 bhp @wheels

            ps, the is currently @ the nurburgring with a broken clutch...has been there since october!!!!
            Velly
            '91 2.0 8v GTI

            Originally posted by DubSteve
            I have wood thinking about you

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            • #36
              Originally posted by velly_16v_cab View Post
              160 bhp @wheels

              ps, the is currently @ the nurburgring with a broken clutch...has been there since october!!!!
              Price of getting to drive it huh!

              APR Tuned | KW Suspension | INA Engineering | Mocal Oil Control |
              Website: http://www.tprengineering.com
              Email: chris@tprengineering.com

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Valver. View Post
                They are crap engine design for an NA motor. They just develop good torque and sound great
                Sounds like a quote by Drake or Oettinger when they were trying to market their aftermarket heads to the performance VW crowd.

                The reality is they're a good compromise and nothing wrong with them in terms of tunability.

                mk2 GTi 16v
                Corrado G60

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Preen59 View Post
                  They aren't total crap... Just a long stroke which negates too much peak horsepower.
                  I love them as much or more than anyone, but they really aren't anything special in the scheme of things The head is just a nightmare. I'd love to drive a Drake or Oettinger version, as I'm sure they're an entirely different story

                  Just because you're a fan of something doesn't mean its design is ideal... look at all the clowns obsessing over old Fords and Holdens - heck, even the new ones are junk.

                  Edit: And re the turbo quip, the only reason I have money (relatively speaking...) is because I probably work 30hrs a week more than anyone else on this forum to do so!!! And, even so, turboing one isn't ideal either; it's just that I love these engines regardless of their design. My point was merely that they are not well designed by modern (and even some 30yr old) standards - and pure and simple, they're not. Cut one of the heads in half and have a look - the exhaust ports are a joke. So many people claim to have big hp na 16vs with stock/near stock heads, and that is bollocks. The head cannot flow more than 180hp (even that is pushing it) without a lot of work. Turboing one only bypasses some of this problem for obvious reasons, but a 16vT with a worked head will still make far more power than one without.

                  The Opel C20XE (direct competition to the ABF) makes nearly 100hp/litre with throttle bodies alone. I won't even raise some of the Jap options. I wouldn't like to own any of these engines, but that isn't the point
                  Last edited by Valver.; 01-08-2008, 07:04 AM.

                  1976 Project Carbon Mk1 - Sold! | 2015 Lotus Exige Cup | F80 M3 Family Wheels

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                  • #39
                    Your right valver, i have ported and polished quite a few different heads and the VW 16v is good but some of the jap gear of the era puts it to shame unfortunately. sr20's, ca18's, b16 etc. A standard 16v does gain considerable power from porting and polishing especially when you get oversize undercut valves and a set of cams to suit your application. I havn't heard of anyone making more than 180bhp with a stock head, claims are one thing a dyno print out is another..... As far as the 1.8 kr being a better choice over the 2.0litre 9a or abf due to the shorter stroke i would chose the 2.0 without hesitation the extra low end torque makes for a far more enjoyable daily driver and when you lighten, balance and knife edge the crank combined with a lightened flywheel they love to rev and will allways make more power than a 1.8! Thats why the vast majority of serious tuners chose the 2.0 litre....
                    sigpic
                    Mk2 GTI 2 door 1.9l 8v turbo 1st mk2 1st engineered water vw nats 09
                    Mk1 twin eng twin turb
                    scirocco gti 2.1l 16v turb 6spd
                    Audi A4 B5 1.8t

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      All very true comments, and in a straight out and out performance comparison, yes, the old 16v would get flogged.

                      But the fact is, we aren't racing these engines in a very restricted class and horsepower is only beneficial to a point.

                      This thread was started so that we could discuss the 16v engine in terms of performance modifications, general servicing etc.

                      So let's not get into a discussion about how bad the engine's design is or the fact that a 10 year newer engine has a better design.


                      APR Tuned | KW Suspension | INA Engineering | Mocal Oil Control |
                      Website: http://www.tprengineering.com
                      Email: chris@tprengineering.com

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        yep, its a thread about make do with what you got! it is said on many build projects in the uk that a 9a with KR cams is said to put out inbetween 160 and 165HP

                        dom

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                        • #42
                          Audi A4 btcc touring cars had 2L 16v engines in them 96 on I think,
                          depending on the year these were either 295 or 305 BHP,
                          These engines are N/A,
                          From what i can find out they are basically 6A engines, solid lifters, big cams, throttle bodies, they produce max power at @8500rpm,
                          In my opinion these are the ultimate 16v engine, imagine this in a stripped mk1/2 gti






                          2.0L 16v Audi 80 - Project
                          3.0L 30v Audi A6 quattro - Daily

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Preen59 View Post

                            This thread was started so that we could discuss the 16v engine in terms of performance modifications, general servicing etc.

                            So let's not get into a discussion about how bad the engine's design is or the fact that a 10 year newer engine has a better design.


                            lol, yes fair point

                            1976 Project Carbon Mk1 - Sold! | 2015 Lotus Exige Cup | F80 M3 Family Wheels

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by WABIT View Post
                              yep, its a thread about make do with what you got! it is said on many build projects in the uk that a 9a with KR cams is said to put out inbetween 160 and 165HP

                              dom
                              In reality, they'd have about 140/145hp - perhaps less now that they're so old

                              1976 Project Carbon Mk1 - Sold! | 2015 Lotus Exige Cup | F80 M3 Family Wheels

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                              • #45
                                you will get that from a STD 1.8 KR valver,

                                155-160 for a std 2.0 would be ball park, i think Dom is on the right track
                                Velly
                                '91 2.0 8v GTI

                                Originally posted by DubSteve
                                I have wood thinking about you

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