Water Injection Setup for Golf R. No more BS please

[shinygti]

Water/Meth Injection Setup for Golf

As I was saying on the weekend to you I would like to get a kit for my car so I asked him as he has had it running in his Evo 9. He can have a look at it and give you a report.

[Tarmac]

If you like Ben we can get this plated for you and a select few with no worries and without being dodge.

^This guy, i like this guy.

As I was saying on the weekend to you I would like to get a kit for my car so I asked him as he has had it running in his Evo 9. He can have a look at it and give you a report.

This would be sweet.

PS i think i better change the title to just Water Injection

[nat225]

Sorry Ben i am a noob in this area, wont it cause a hydrolock if u spray too muchwater?

[Tarmac]

Sorry Ben i am a noob in this area, wont it cause a hydrolock if u spray too muchwater?

I guess if you are a complete idiot and get enough nozzles or nozzles that spray enough water for a V16 truck then yeah sure you could. If your nozzle is slightly too big then you will start to kill spark and notice it straight away. Which means you need a smaller nozzle or need to tune around it, either with the controller (depending what 1 you have) or with the pump which is adjustable from 150 to 250psi.

I think the main thing is you do your research and calculations first. Ask the professionals. (WMI suppliers) then you shouldnt have any problems.

After all you are atomizing the water. So its a super dooper (technical term) fine mist. If it were spraying water in like a small hose then....well that would NOT be good.

Does that help at all?

[shinygti]

Water/Meth Injection Setup for Golf

I like the fact you have a good composite tank, nothing worse than an old ****ty metal or aluminium one. Looks almost like the fuel cells they use in track cars or drag cars.

[Greg Roles]

You will put the flame out long before you hydrolock the car, and that's on diesels with twice the compression, and thus likelyhood of hydrolock. I've tried it. All good.

[Tarmac]

I like the fact you have a good composite tank, nothing worse than an old ****ty metal or aluminium one. Looks almost like the fuel cells they use in track cars or drag cars.

Yeah thanks man, thats why i got it. It was really well designed, light weight and 6mm thick HDPE is great for keeping heat out. Almost anything proof as far as liquids go. Doesnt corrode and is more durable then thin aluminium for instants (in case of a puncture or something)

[Tarmac]

You will put the flame out long before you hydrolock the car, and that's on diesels with twice the compression, and thus likelyhood of hydrolock. I've tried it. All good.

^ this

[parso_rex]

I'll be fitting mine soon and there won't be any meth in my setup either. I'll run the thing past our guy that does the blueslips and see what the deal is in N.S.W regarding this sort of stuff.
Looks like a top setup though and it no doubt took a great deal of time ,its obvious to me that you need to find a new girlfriend to put a stop to this fun !

[Tarmac]

I'll be fitting mine soon and there won't be any meth in my setup either. I'll run the thing past our guy that does the blueslips and see what the deal is in N.S.W regarding this sort of stuff.
Looks like a top setup though and it no doubt took a great deal of time ,its obvious to me that you need to find a new girlfriend to put a stop to this fun !

Im looking forward to seeing your results. Having maxed out the K04 like you have, it will be interesting to see how much the extra timing does. It should be more consistent power too.
I thought about it first,....took a while as i can be slow from monday to thursday. Prepared, then installed it in a day.
hahahaha, i did. She supports it and congratulates me on a fine effort even know she doesnt know what it is im doing nor gives a crap. Winning.

[wai]

Sorry Ben i am a noob in this area, wont it cause a hydrolock if u spray too muchwater?

The amount of water that s added is minimal. Basically, if you used as much water as fuel, you would not get combustion.

The methanol being used is also minimal. Its main purpose is to allow finer droplets of water so that you get a better mix in the combustion chamber. For you to be gaining any advantage as an additional fuel, you would need a tank as large (or larger) than the petrol tank.

Again, this is not like NOx injection. There you are using the fact that nitrogen atoms like forming bonds with other nitrogen atoms thereby releasing energy, and the now free oxygen allows you to add additional fuel to get more power.

[Tarmac]

The amount of water that s added is minimal. Basically, if you used as much water as fuel, you would not get combustion.

The methanol being used is also minimal. Its main purpose is to allow finer droplets of water so that you get a better mix in the combustion chamber. For you to be gaining any advantage as an additional fuel, you would need a tank as large (or larger) than the petrol tank.

Again, this is not like NOx injection. There you are using the fact that nitrogen atoms like forming bonds with other nitrogen atoms thereby releasing energy, and the now free oxygen allows you to add additional fuel to get more power.

^ this guy

[Guy_H]

Just for clarification:

A "Water" Injection system that delivers a fluid into the intake tract of a vehicle is deemed an auxiliary fuel system - and all auxiliary fuel systems need to comply to ADR 17 - that is nationally - not state per state.

As there is no control over the type of "liquid" that could be put accidentally or on purpose into the tank (unlike a proper fuel tank), the system must comply with that ADR.

An engineer cannot blue plate it (certainly in QLD) if its connected to the intake manifold, and under the regulations it falls directly into the same category as NOX.

An engineer can plate an external intercooler mister / mist system, and Cams allows water sprays onto an intercooler or brake system. If the external spray is found to contain methanol, you won't be allowed to enter the track.

I'm sure some people are aware that a workshop was busted cheating in last years "Motor Magazine's" Tuner Challenge. This particular team had installed a "Water" injection system just like Ben's above.

Then someone accidentally filled the tank with methanol & forgot to add water (they obviously mistakenly grabbed the wrong bottle at the workshop).

The car ran extremely high numbers on the dyno (strange eh?) and then hurt the motor. The "water" injection system was well hidden.

Next day at the drag strip, one of Australia's best racing drivers took the same car down WSID's 1/4 mile drag strip. The car suffered a catastrophic failure at 140mph at about the 350 metre mark. The car spun & missed the concrete wall by centimetres.

Anyway, in the aftermath of the "incident", the ~ 20 litre water injection plastic tank (just like Ben's) was discovered in the boot of the car. Of course it was accidentally filled with a flammable liquid & the ramifications of what could have happened if this car had have impacted the wall at 140mph would have been: A giant fireball & a dead pro driver.

This bought out all the rules & regulations, including all those for drag cars, circuit cars & road cars.

Now in the particular "sedan", the "water" tank was enclosed in the boot. The boot used to be classified as a separate compartment to the passenger compartment, but fold down rear seats have complicated that issue for engineers. Certainly in a Golf, the "boot" is part of the passenger compartment. In an impact the "water" tank could split & spray the "water" all over the occupants - lets hope its not flammable water like the case in Sydney.

Now with insurance, most insurance companies we deal with will insure a car with "legal" modifications.

Have an accident with a water tank in the back of your car hooked to the inlet & see what your insurance company thinks of that.

Now I have only touched on the technicalities & legalities of having this in a road car - we have not addressed the implications on the engine in the case of a blocked nozzle or a pump failure. That is an interesting discussion in itself.

Now you may ask why am I so "involved" in this?

Our group (Australian & NZ dealers) that we are responsible for, collectively modifies over 1000 vehicles a year. It is our business to advise our customers & our dealers on the law & protect their interests. This is not a hobby or part time business, and we treat it seriously. We have all our cars mod plated & are well versed with the procedures & laws, right from a simple stage 1 upgrade, high flow catalysts, open airboxes, brake & suspension updates - right through to fitting turbo & superchargers to normally aspirated cars.

[Lazarus7]

Very good info there Guy, thanks.

[Tarmac]

Have you finished hijacking my thread guy? Because my water bottle in the boot is so dangerous to everyones lives ive decided to throw it in the bin. The 8.5 litre water bottle was weighing the car down anyway.