The Mk1 ABF Project

[Jarred]

Rear doesn't matter much really, if you're doing it right you've got one wheel in the air anyway

dammit, I just changed my sig quote too. gold!

[cartertronic]

Sorry guys, been flat chat last couple of days.

cheers,

cartertronic- is this the mob you ended up going with www.havas.co.uk

The guys I'm going with are www.movecorp.co.uk and will drop of a crate to be packed, then come and pick it up and freight it over.
They were a little more expensive (about £10-20) than sourcing a crate from somewhere else and getting Havas to freight it, but because they are doing the whole thing (supplying crate and freight) I figured there would be less chance of a stuff up (e.g. crate not being up to customs scratch or something).

i only just read your thread simon! forgot you changed your screen name

good stuff man!!!

if ya need a hand i've done my share of mk1's in my short life

Hey mate! Thanks for the offer, I might just take you up on that


Some really interesting points raised about the rear strut brace.

I totally see your point about the rear towers, and that the benefit will mostly be in weight transfer.
Also, tying the rear towers together won't stop them flexing in the same direction (i.e. as you say like a parallelogram).

I think I'm gonna pass on the shiny brace and try and design an 'X' shaped one myself (with plates to reinforce attachment to the towers)
Thanks for the pic dado. Interesting that VW have gone for a rectangular setup, I can see this would have the same effect, but it does look heavier then a 'X' shaped brace (this could be the reason in itself! Or perhaps its just cheaper..).

I'm gonna put a brace on my list of projects, but I might have to brush up on my welding!
I figure lowest and highest points on the towers (without interfering with shocks etc.) would be the best fixing points.

If this doesn't end up as just another pipe dream (love a good pun ), then I'll post up the designs etc.


So the braces in this pic stop the 'legs' of the rear beam flexing outward ('legs' refers to tubular sections), but still allows the whole rear beam to twist?

If you wanted to control rear camber changes due to corner loading you'd do it more like this.

[Peter Jones]

So the braces in this pic stop the 'legs' of the rear beam flexing outward ('legs' refers to tubular sections), but still allows the whole rear beam to twist?

It's a bit hard to see from this angle but what's it's doing is stopping the angle of the axles relative to the main section of the beam from changing. It's attempting to stop the leg from twisting.

You're right about the main beam still being able to twist, you'd install a sway bar as well to limit that.

Pete

[cartertronic]

Cool, I get it. It stops the legs twisting and toeing in or out etc..

Is this a realistic road setup though? Or is this only a consideration in track use?

I checked out the site selling it Southern California Cylinder Heads

I guess this is the answer "when subjected to sever lateral g forces it has a tendency of flexing inward or outward causing unwanted toe changes in the rear end of the car which leads to a more unpredictable driving environment". I think this is a bit beyond my street spec ... at this stage

Btw - speaking of sway bars I have a decision to make as I have a 20mm rear sway bar and two front sway bars (15mm and 21mm).

I assume there is a preferred setup for optimal balance? i.e. front should be thicker than front or vice versa?

[Oneofthegreats]

Cool, I get it. It stops the legs twisting and toeing in or out etc..

Is this a realistic road setup though? Or is this only a consideration in track use?

I checked out the site selling it Southern California Cylinder Heads

I guess this is the answer "when subjected to sever lateral g forces it has a tendency of flexing inward or outward causing unwanted toe changes in the rear end of the car which leads to a more unpredictable driving environment". I think this is a bit beyond my street spec ... at this stage

Btw - speaking of sway bars I have a decision to make as I have a 20mm rear sway bar and two front sway bars (15mm and 21mm).

I assume there is a preferred setup for optimal balance? i.e. front should be thicker than front or vice versa?

I can safely say that the SCCH Rear Beam Toe Stabilizer is complete overkill for street use & even for part time track work.
You will never push the car to the levels of grip you need on the street & unless your running mega wide slicks with stupids amount of grip even for track use.

As far as swaybars go.

I ran a 25mm front hollow bar & a 28mm hollow bar & loved them! They were awesome on the track.
But the front one was overkill for street use & way to stiff. It was also very noisy too due to the large urethane mounts & cause it hinged off the body & connected to the control arms & would creak at low speeds.

For street use in my 76er & just about all of my streeter Mk1's, I just run only the rear 28mm one. Not noisy & makes the car very taught & more than good enough to tackle the twistys when you feel the need.


One thing to remember before you start making the car all nice & stiff is, when you step up your suspension, your "so called sticky tyres" will no longer give you the grip you thought you had & as such will also have to be upgraded.

I found this out first hand. I had some nice new very nice grippy rubber on the car & then fitted the KW V3's & swaybars etc. Then the grippy tyres were junk, cause the car had so much more levels of stiffness, I had to upgrade the tyres to get more out of the upgraded suspension.

Just food for thought

[cartertronic]

Yeah, I'm a little cautious about how rough the ride will be with a 21mm front sway bar (I'll be running urethane mounts as well).

I figure I'll notice a big difference with the 15mm front and 20mm rear setup anyway (+ fitting FK Konigsports).

Interesting what you say about running only the rear sway bar, maybe I'll chuck the rear one on first (gotta fab up the outer brackets though) then see how it feels..

Any other setups out there?

[cartertronic]

I've misplaced the rego and VIN details of the car the engine came out of and I now need to know the exact build date so I get the right service parts

I got my mate storing the engine to check the engine number "Checked the engine out this evening and the engine number looks as though it is 0681090210 (or 0 could be a D)"

I rang VW, they recommended checking each part to be replaced for a part #, then buying the corresponding part. Good idea, but not ideal.

I've emailed the cars seller, but as yet no reply

Car was a '97 Mk3 GTI

Help!

UPDATE: I've ordered a copy of VAG ETKA (electronic parts catalogue) to investigate this properly. Should be able to pinpoint any parts that changed over in '97 and then follow-up on the parts numbers. Will post results..

UPDATE: ETKA v2 rules! Totally geeked-out on car schematics for about 5hours after work last night

[cartertronic]

Fitted a 20mm rear sway bar last night..


Had to knock up some outer brackets to attach it the tubular part of the rear beam, as these brackets are super hard to come by and VW don't make them any more.

No matter, managed to cut some strips of (1-2mm) steel and hand bend them into shape..

I managed to get it spot on, any bigger and it wouldn't have been tight enough. As it is I tightened it up so there was no movement, but was cautious not to deform the bushing.

You may notice the big 'handles' (flat surface that bolt has gone through) and the size of the bolt. I made these large to give myself something to grab when squeezing the bracket tight around the bushing/beam, the length of the bolt helped me get it started so I could tighten it up. Hand are aching a little today!



Tough part was drilling through the rear beam (to mount the inner brackets) with old cheap/blunt bits - some quality drill bits sorted that out

Only had a couple of chances to drive the car today, but can really feel the difference!

I just did a few fast laps around a tight roundabout and was very pleased with how it hung on.

[Jarred]

Good to see you're still kicking it Simon!

Any word on the shipping yet?

[roccodingo]

roll bar straps are available from crazy quiffs

Items

[cartertronic]

roll bar straps are available from crazy quiffs

Items

Haha! Oh well, at least it's on now anyway

Good to see you're still kicking it Simon!

Any word on the shipping yet?

Still waiting on it getting cleaned up before I can freight it over.

A bit frustrating, but at least it gives me a chance to get some other projects out the way in the mean time!

[mikinoz]

I think I'm going to buy a set, but realistically it has to be a relatively cheap option.

At this stage its either:
-Ashley - If you are looking for an Ashley Volkswagen Golf Mk1 16V Conversion Manifold (AVWM10) click here Ashley - £200 ($365AU) could be sent with car (postage within UK £12.50 / $23AU).
-Exhaust Header for VW Golf I MK1 16V 74 - 84 who do a Mk1 16v header for $230US ($145US + $85US shipping) which is only like $265AU!

Unfortunately, the US mob will have designed theirs for LHD, but does that definitely mean it will foul? Is it possible to modify it to overcome this? If it can be easily overcome then it looks a good option..

In the mean time I've emailed there Belgian parent company Raceland! to see if they do a RHD version.

Hey, so did you find out about the LH/RH issue for the Raceland?

[Preen59]

Pete Jones and I have both got a set of Raceland headers. I'm happy with them, but haven't fitted them yet.. Got them through Grant (roccodingo).

[Valver.]

The Raceland header will fit a RHD car. I used one when putting my old ABF into a friend's Mk1. It's quite hard to get past the uni-joint (you'll also need to heat-shield the rubber cover as a result) and the quality leaves a lot to be desired (none of the bolt holes lined up - had to weld and re-drill them) and the steel is really thin. I also had to extend it around 20mm for the ABF.

Saying all this, it hasn't cracked yet and is cheap, so you can't expect the highest standard

About the only header that is a direct bolt-on with a RHD ABF Mk1 is the Eurosport one... This has drawbacks too, though: it only has a 2" outlet!

[mikinoz]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Stu, are you thinking that if I have a KR, there will be more room as the head is marginally lower than in the ABF? I would not have expected to have had that issue with welding and re-drilling, but as you say it may be a case of getting what you pay for.

Chris, have you matched up you head to the manifold to see how they look?

I have a quote for $400 landed which I think is cheap enough to warrant the issues that may arise, but not as cheap as the $230US ($145US + $85US shipping) mentioned above. Was that simply by emailing Raceland as they asked for $220 for shipping...

Very sorry to thread hijack.