Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[ParaBul]

"Ignore emission controls"??

The DPF is still in circuit, so is the catalytic converter. The only thing that can be changed is the injection timing and frequency, and the EGR, and maybe the variable turbocharger.

Yes, they can disable the EGR, and ignore regenerating the NOx trap (if there is one on these?)

This is no different to engine mapping employed by every car maker.

Yes, there is. But you've amply demonstrated that you refuse to understand that.

If you really want to see a "cheat", look at the exhaust bypass used by some car makers. Here it is a clear cheat. The bypass valve is set to deliver a quiet exhaust noise reading for the test, but when being used outside the parameters of the test, the bypass valve is activated. But that is seen as "only noise", so is acceptable.

You're living in denial. I hope you're very happy there.

[arcadelt]

Australian Emission Standards

Or until someone researches and locates the emission regulation requirements for Australia.

Already did back at post #453.

For vehicles under 3.5 look here.
For heavy diesel vehicles look here.

[bluey]

Too much Government verbage for me to want to sift through but for assistance to whomever who wishes to do so:

https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/adr_online.aspx

Specifically, go to ADR-79. Emissions Controls for Light Vehicles.
There are 5 documents. It looks like document on the out-link flagged as "00" is the primary one. "01 and "02" documents are addendum documents. "03" and "04" are small amendments.[...]

Had a look at those a while back. I didn't find anything specifically about "defeat devices" like in US. But the ACCC has other ideas on potential prosecution under "consumer law" (was trade practices act).

Been trying to find out how the Bosch ECU works with the different engine maps.
Bosch's popular diesel engine software was not preprogrammed to cheat

Looks like the ECU has a different map for "limp home mode". So I'm guessing the creative engineers figured how to put the vehicle into a "limp home mode" ECU map on a dyno test - equivalent to how it would behave if limping home with a sensor failure. One could claim ignorance and the complexity of the advanced traction control if that mode just happened to be entered when on a dyno test. Really rather nice of VW to admit a problem when they had the option to legally stonewall until the heat could be deflected to all diesel cars which emit more in real world (most of them).

So who is checking the rest of them for specific emissions test dyno behaviour?

[Rawcpoppa]

Had a look at those a while back. I didn't find anything specifically about "defeat devices" like in US. But the ACCC has other ideas on potential prosecution under "consumer law" (was trade practices act).

Been trying to find out how the Bosch ECU works with the different engine maps.
Bosch's popular diesel engine software was not preprogrammed to cheat

Looks like the ECU has a different map for "limp home mode". So I'm guessing the creative engineers figured how to put the vehicle into a "limp home mode" ECU map on a dyno test - equivalent to how it would behave if limping home with a sensor failure. One could claim ignorance and the complexity of the advanced traction control if that mode just happened to be entered when on a dyno test. Really rather nice of VW to admit a problem when they had the option to legally stonewall until the heat could be deflected to all diesel cars which emit more in real world (most of them).

So who is checking the rest of them for specific emissions test dyno behaviour?

They did stonewall. They only relented when the EPA revoked their permissions to sell 2016 cars. How nice of VW? LOL

Whether the heat got deflected to other manufacturers is irrelevant in this case. Vw essentially got pulled up for the cheat device rather than emitting more NOx in the real world. That emitting just helped highlight the cheat device.

If other manufacturers were truly cheating then North America would have had more diesel engines with similar tech from other manufacturers "passing".

[ParaBul]

Been trying to find out how the Bosch ECU works with the different engine maps.
Bosch's popular diesel engine software was not preprogrammed to cheat

I don't think it needs a different map.

From the page linked above:

Instead, VW had the engine software modified to turn on the vehicle's emission control system when it was being tested in the lab, on a rolling test bed called a dynamometer, then turn it off when the vehicle was on the road, the EPA said.

As I've posted before, I believe EGR will be a significant part of this "cheat", as EGR exists to reduce NOx, and NOx is the issue - so I'm going to use EGR as an example.

The ECU is always doing calculations to adjust countless engine control parameters. One of these parameters is how far to open the EGR valve - for ease of example, let's say it calculates a percentage of the EGR valve's maximum opening i.e. it tells the EGR valve to open to a percentage of its maximum possible opening. Somewhere in the calculation, they could multiply the percentage by a variable that I'll call "Testing", which can have a value of either "1" or "0". Set to "1" if the "cheat" has detected that the car is being tested, set to "0" otherwise.

So, on a test bed, with "Testing" set to "1" by the "cheat" software, the EGR works as normal. Elsewhere, when "Testing" is set to "0", the EGR is always commanded to open to zero percent i.e. it remains closed.

Individuals have been blocking EGR valves, either physically or by electronic manipulation, for as long as EGR valves have existed. I think VW got in on the act.

[Ryeman]

I don't think it needs a different map.

From the page linked above:



As I've posted before, I believe EGR will be a significant part of this "cheat", as EGR exists to reduce NOx, and NOx is the issue - so I'm going to use EGR as an example.

The ECU is always doing calculations to adjust countless engine control parameters. One of these parameters is how far to open the EGR valve - for ease of example, let's say it calculates a percentage of the EGR valve's maximum opening i.e. it tells the EGR valve to open to a percentage of its maximum possible opening. Somewhere in the calculation, they could multiply the percentage by a variable that I'll call "Testing", which can have a value of either "1" or "0". Set to "1" if the "cheat" has detected that the car is being tested, set to "0" otherwise.

So, on a test bed, with "Testing" set to "1" by the "cheat" software, the EGR works as normal. Elsewhere, when "Testing" is set to "0", the EGR is always commanded to open to zero percent i.e. it remains closed.

Individuals have been blocking EGR valves, either physically or by electronic manipulation, for as long as EGR valves have existed. I think VW got in on the act.

Agree
and that's why I believe EGR failure rates will increase significantly hence my query re life span for them and who pays when they do inside 10 years.

[joel0407]

I am just throwing some ideas in the mix here on the multiple maps thing. I know one of the performance tuners here in Australia (international franchise) was selling performance tunes for petrol Tiguans and it included multiple maps so you could choose to be running an eco map or perfornce map. This was not an add on device but a program of the factory ECU.

Something also to consider. I have a Skoda Yeti. The above was possible for the Tiguan via the OBD2 port. I was told they could do it but it required opening the ECU for my Yeti. Exact same motor but 2 different ECUs.

Happy Days.

[Ryeman]

I am just throwing some ideas in the mix here on the multiple maps thing. I know one of the performance tuners here in Australia (international franchise) was selling performance tunes for petrol Tiguans and it included multiple maps so you could choose to be running an eco map or perfornce map. This was not an add on device but a program of the factory ECU.

Something also to consider. I have a Skoda Yeti. The above was possible for the Tiguan via the OBD2 port. I was told they could do it but it required opening the ECU for my Yeti. Exact same motor but 2 different ECUs.

Happy Days.

Maybe it's just another case of hand-me-downs for Skoda.......Tig gets first suck of the sauce bottle?

[joel0407]

Maybe it's just another case of hand-me-downs for Skoda.......Tig gets first suck of the sauce bottle?

Yeh. I don't know. Same engine, same power, same torque but different ECUs (different brands ECUs from memory) but both vehicles effected by so called cheat software.

[joel0407]

I've done some searching and apparently all EA189 engines have the Bosch EDC 17 ECU so maybe I have some miss information when I was making inquires about a performance tune.

Happy Days.

[hoi polloi]

Looks like the ECU has a different map for "limp home mode". So I'm guessing the creative engineers figured how to put the vehicle into a "limp home mode" ECU map on a dyno test - equivalent to how it would behave if limping home with a sensor failure.

Thanks for this - it actually makes sense given it's Bosch, not VW that make the ECU itself. Rather than find somewhere to add a specific cheat program VW just found a way to utilise the limp home mode every modern ECU has... I suggest it also would have made it easier to hide / harder to detect...

- Anthony

[Ryeman]

Thanks for this - it actually makes sense given it's Bosch, not VW that make the ECU itself. Rather than find somewhere to add a specific cheat program VW just found a way to utilise the limp home mode every modern ECU has... I suggest it also would have made it easier to hide / harder to detect...

- Anthony

I would have thought 'limp' would have been a bit too limp for any test rig.

[bluey]

I would have thought 'limp' would have been a bit too limp for any test rig.

I guess that depends on how exactly the "limp" is implemented for all the possible sensor failures, or if there is a single limp mode for all failures. But it would not be unreasonable to assume that when limping, the engine map might have to cope with EGR maxed out, which just happened be be how the map behaves when on emissions test with some parts of the vehicle non-functional (eg rear wheels not turning, steering not turning, no driver in seat, etc)

Found this easy to navigate guide to diesel emissions standards and fuel standards worldwide. Some pages need subscription.
DieselNet: Diesel Exhaust Emission Standards
Emission Standards: Australia: On-Road Vehicles and Engines

Mentions the euro diesel standard is 51 cetane from 2009.

Also found these Bosch documents by Jurgen Hammar on diesel technology for passenger cars (PC) and light duty vehicles (LDV). Interesting reading.
Aspects on Injection Pressure for Diesel and Gasoline DI Engines
Advanced Fuel Injection Equipment - Technology serving Future Diesel Powertrains
Advanced Diesel Fuel Injection Equipment – A never ending BOSCH story

[Eaglehawk]

EA288 now implicated...

VW made several defeat devices to cheat emissions tests: sources | Reuters

As usual...disclaimer...could be a typo...bad journalism...

[tigger73]

EA288 now implicated...

VW made several defeat devices to cheat emissions tests: sources | Reuters

As usual...disclaimer...could be a typo...bad journalism...

I believe the reason that the vehicles have been withdrawn in the US is that there is software in the ECU which has the potential to modify the emissions which hasn't been declared. Stuff like changing the mapping during cold starts until the engine is up to temp has the potential to change the emissions, however has been put into the car to protect it during cold starts... though may also help it to pass the emissions tests too.