Seat Leon Cupra claims new Nurburgring lap record

[kaanage]

Seems like SEAT cheated unlike other manufacturers who brag about the lap times of their cars at the Ring. I'm sure no other manufacturer would use the best tyres available, or use a Touring Car champion to drive the car, or do a lap early in the morning when the temperature is optimum for a turbo car, or have a clear track with no other traffic. When Honda come out to try to beat this time I bet they play fair.
........

Which means the Honda's marketting director specific for the new Type R could be just a grad who completed uni a year before..

If they dont optimise every chances within the boundaries of factory produced car and legit options.

Every come across irony?

The Potenza RE-11 (180 A A or 200 A A) and RE-11A (200 A A) is objectively a gripper and better performance tyre than the RE050, RE050A and S001, but their respective UTQG ratings don't seem to reflect that (apart from the S001).

Tread, construction and compound all play their part - it's not all about the wear rating/hardness.

Not saying you don't know this but it should be pointed out amongst the discussions of grip and UTQC

[sports racer]

Every come across irony?

I thought I was being sarcastic but either way it's obviously wasted on the young.

[Diesel_vert]

The new AD08R has a claim to be the fastest non semi slick race compound tyre with UTQG of 180... I wonder how this would compare to the Pilot Sport Cup 2...

Better than the PS2, PS3 and PSS, but not the PSC or PSC2.

Tyres like the Bridgestone Potenza RE-11A and Yokohama Advan Neova AD-08R occupy a performance category where Michelin don't offer an equivalent product. These are still road tyres, but more resistant to circuit work and wear at elevated operating temperatures. Also more consistent in these conditions.

The Yokohama Advan A048 or A050 would be more comparable in performance, or at least, in the same category as the Michelin PSC.

Tread, construction and compound all play their part - it's not all about the wear rating/hardness.

Not saying you don't know this but it should be pointed out amongst the discussions of grip and UTQC

That's true. There are a multitude of factors (in regards to the tyre itself) that determines treadwear - but on an objective level, the RE-11A really is a faster wearing tyre than the RE050A!



As for the RE050A itself, it's definitely not the motorsport tyre its UTQG treadwear of 140 suggests - far from it, it was OE fitment to many luxury vehicles as well. It's very much a road tyre at heart.

I've noted that the RE050A was released in 2004, while the RE-11 was released in 2008. I think that has given Bridgestone the opportunity to "recalibrate" their UTQG ratings that are more inline with other manufacturers and customer expectations.

I think it also demonstrates how blunt an instrument the UTQG system can be for determining tyre performance.

[Ideo]

And using a real gearbox too. Impressive.

[brad]

From what I can gather this Seat Leon Cupra is pretty much a MK7 GTI, which makes me wonder what time the new GTI would do with the same driver or better driver and above tyres. I can think of some better tyres with the same treadwear TBH.

It would be slower because it has less power

[brad]

Michelin
The Pilot Sport Cup 2 (180 AA A) is the successor to the Pilot Sport Cup (80 AA A). The UTQG numbers suggest it'll last more than twice as long as its predecessor. Again, Michelin only claim a 50% (not 125%) improvement in circuit wear, partly achieved by increasing the initial tread depth to 6.0 mm, compared to just 4.8 mm (!) for its predecessor.

I've probably screwed this up but as we have discussed previously, the UTQG #s are somewhat arbitrary because the tyre company does it's own test.

If it's 80 that means it lasts 80% of the life of the official control tyre? 120 would be 20% more than the control tyre? to get from 80 to 120 is +50% isn't it?

But I agree, the numbers are barely even a guide for the same manufacturers tyres & almost useless when comparing between brands.

FWIW, Bridgestone RE050A used to last between 20,000km-40,000km among my Subaru Liberty Gen4 mates. Some of them drove reasonably quick but were very smooth

[grandturismo]

It would be slower because it has less power

Would it?
I agree it does have 50 more horses BUT 'the Ring' is a long track and driver skill and tyres come into play more. Be a good close race!

[Diesel_vert]

I've probably screwed this up but as we have discussed previously, the UTQG #s are somewhat arbitrary because the tyre company does it's own test.

If it's 80 that means it lasts 80% of the life of the official control tyre? 120 would be 20% more than the control tyre? to get from 80 to 120 is +50% isn't it?

But I agree, the numbers are barely even a guide for the same manufacturers tyres & almost useless when comparing between brands.

At my own discretion, I took (80 AA A) as the baseline and worked out that (180 AA A) is a 125% improvement in raw percentage terms, which I took to mean, "last more than twice as long" (or 2.25 times longer, to be exact).

So if (80 AA A) means a tread life of 5 000 km, then (180 AA A) would mean a tread life of 11 250 km. Hmm... more than 10k on a set of motorsport tyres? Or just a UTQG "recalibration"? I think the latter rather than the former.

Michelin themselves (on their website) only quote a 50% improvement in circuit wear, which doesn't correspond with my own take on the UTQG numbers.

I don't really know if my method is correct, but either way, irrespective of what the silly UTQG numbers are, I think one would be doing extraordinarily well to get more than 10 000 km on a set of Michelin PSC2 tyres.



For those unaware, my overriding point is that Michelin Cup tyres are serious motorsport tyres through & through - don't be fooled by the UTQG numbers, people.

FWIW, Bridgestone RE050A used to last between 20,000km-40,000km among my Subaru Liberty Gen4 mates. Some of them drove reasonably quick but were very smooth

Those figures look reasonable and are largely inline with what I expect from high-performance road tyres made by Bridgestone.

Would it?
I agree it does have 50 more horses BUT 'the Ring' is a long track and driver skill and tyres come into play more. Be a good close race!

With the same driver and the same tyres, I think the Leon Cupra would be faster (close or otherwise) than the Golf GTI on most circuits, including the Nürburgring.

[gldgti]

Its practically VAG tradition that the fastest A platform car will be the respective series' Seat Cupra.

The VW is always the best overall compromise. The Seat is always the sportiest, and the Skoda is always the most comfortable. This is right. This is zen. This is VAG.

This is not by chance..... its the way VAG make it happen.

I left out Audi... being the most luxurious and pompous (I know, I've got one )

[Diesel_vert]

Seat Leon Cupra 'ring lap update - PistonHeads

Okay, so we now know that particular model had:

Michelin road legal motorsport tyres
Brembo brakes with 4-pot calipers & 370 mm front discs
Air-conditioning system removed



A sub-eight minute time is still fast, as is the car itself - no doubt.

However, in my eyes, it's a less impressive achievement (nor as surprising) given the above modifications, even if they're factory-fitted.



I wasn't sure before, but I now think it's highly likely that the current RS Megane would probably beat it, given the same modifications.

[abreut]

Ok the new renault 275 has managed to top this time, BUT look how far they had to go.
Renault reveals fastest, most expensive Megane RS ever

So they have done all those 3 things that you mentioned Diesel_vert,
- Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2
- 4-pot brakes (I think the 265 had these anyway)
- Air-conditioning removed

In addition they also removed the rear seat, the radio, changed the front seats to lightweight buckets, lightweight lithium battery and changed out the entire exhaust for a lightweight titanium system. And they have more power than the 265.
With all of that they still only pip the Leon by 4 seconds. Considering the fact that they knew the Leon’s time beforehand so had a firm target, and there are no controls around how many laps they can run etc, and the gap they established over the Leone wasn't that big, I’m pretty sure they had to work pretty hard to beat that time.
Now let’s see what the Civic manages when they finally arrive. They must be struggling to come to terms with the rapidly changing goalposts

[Diesel_vert]

Even if it serves no useful purpose for the average motorist, I think it's great to see car manufacturers pushing to see what their passenger car platforms are capable of in (mostly) production form without the full-on works race-spec treatment (but still driven by a professional driver/stig). However, I don't think it's terribly useful to be removing equipment on road cars, though at least Renault were upfront about its modifications straight away.

Having said that, the current Megane is based on an old (and thus heavy) platform, so it was important for Renault to either reduce weight or increase power (or both) in order to match the power-to-weight ratio of the Cupra 280 (which is based on the new weight-optimised MQB platform).

I'm also beginning to see what it takes for a production FWD hatchback (~1300 kg without driver, +200 kW, LSD, big brakes, motorsport tyres) to post a time of under eight minutes on the Nurburgring. Honda will certainly have to produce a car with similar specifications or better to get into the FWD sub-8 club.

Curious to know what a standard Leon Cupra or RS Megane will do with just Michelin cup tyres though. The interest for me lies, not with the actual time per se, but the delta between road and motorsport tyres on a very long track.

[Buller_Scott]

... given that factory adjustments/ mods are fair game:

Driver Laurent Hurgon belted out a lap time of 7:54.3 around the challenging 20.8km circuit, ensuring Renault's new Trophy R wrested the crown back from the VW Group's 206kW Seat Leon Cupra 280 by four seconds.

now hurry the hell up, Honda!