Seat Leon Cupra claims new Nurburgring lap record

[abreut]

Apologies if this has already been talked about somewhere else, but I haven't seen any mention of it on here yet and I can't understand why. While there is nothing official about Nurburgring rankings, this is still pretty big news. Especially when you consider some of the scalps that have been claimed with this time.

Seat Leon Cupra sets Nurburgring record - BBC Top Gear

SEAT Leon Cupra revealed as fastest ever FWD car at Geneva | Auto Express

[gldgti]

Go SEAT.

I just watched the whole lap and it made me very happy.

SEAT's are just awesome fun to drive.

[AdamD]

Very impressive. Over 30 seconds faster than a Mk7 GTI! Not to mention it's faster than an R8 V8, Audi RS4, Porsche Cayman S, etc etc.

[Water Boy]

Wahooooo go the Seat!

[Diesel_vert]

Bear in mind, that particular model was fitted with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres, which are road legal but essentially optimised for the circuit - and rather expensive too, like most motorsport tyres.

It was an interesting exercise, and there's no doubt the car has some fundamental speed, but I think it would've been more useful (certainly in a comparative sense) if it were fitted with ordinary high-performance road tyres that most people would use.

[gldgti]

Bear in mind, that particular model was fitted with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres, which are road legal but essentially optimised for the circuit - and rather expensive too, like most motorsport tyres.

It was an interesting exercise, and there's no doubt the car has some fundamental speed, but I think it would've been more useful (certainly in a comparative sense) if it were fitted with ordinary high-performance road tyres that most people would use.

Yes, I agree, but still - Go SEAT!

The treadwear rating is only 180

[sports racer]

It was an interesting exercise, and there's no doubt the car has some fundamental speed, but I think it would've been more useful (certainly in a comparative sense) if it were fitted with ordinary high-performance road tyres that most people would use.

Seems like SEAT cheated unlike other manufacturers who brag about the lap times of their cars at the Ring. I'm sure no other manufacturer would use the best tyres available, or use a Touring Car champion to drive the car, or do a lap early in the morning when the temperature is optimum for a turbo car, or have a clear track with no other traffic. When Honda come out to try to beat this time I bet they play fair.

It would be much more useful to have your average Joe drive, fit the car with ordinary tyres (even though the Michelins are optional) and do the run when all the Volvo driving school mums are on the track. I'm sure that would attract more buyers.

[Diesel_vert]

Seems like SEAT cheated unlike other manufacturers who brag about the lap times of their cars at the Ring. I'm sure no other manufacturer would use the best tyres available, or use a Touring Car champion to drive the car, or do a lap early in the morning when the temperature is optimum for a turbo car, or have a clear track with no other traffic. When Honda come out to try to beat this time I bet they play fair.

Even if Seat had fitted slick tyres to the Leon Cupra, it would still be a valid lap time.

It just makes it difficult to compare with other cars that weren't fitted with similar tyres.

It would be much more useful to have your average Joe drive

The primary reason for using a racing driver is to show what the machine is capable of - I don't see any real problem with that.

A highly experienced, skilled and talented racing driver should be supremely consistent in their inputs, which allows him or herself to be removed as a variable (important for vehicle suspension development too).

fit the car with ordinary tyres (even though the Michelins are optional)

When I say "ordinary", I mean in a relative sense - as in road tyres (i.e. tyres predominately designed to be used on public roads).

I am referring to tyres such as the Bridgestone Potenza RE050A (RenaultSport Megane), Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 (Porsche 911), Michelin Pilot Super Sport (BMW M cars), Pirelli P Zero (Audi R8 ) and so on.

All are high-performance tyres, but still ordinary (i.e. road) tyres.

I'm sure that would attract more buyers.

I'm not dissing what the Leon Cupra has done - a sub 8 minute lap time is fast by most people's standards, irrespective of how it was achieved.

However, there's a difference between showing what the car can do at its limits (by employing a racing driver), and simply increasing those limits outright (by fitting motorsport tyres).

Again, there's nothing wrong with that, nor do I have anything against that - all it does is make comparisons difficult with cars that don't have similar modifications.

That motorsport tyres are offered from the factory (or supplied privately or independently) does not change the principle.

[nat225]

An average Joe who has never seen a race track let alone how to drive with appropriate track techniques would probably be a waste of time for Seat or any other car manufacturers who want to test their cars.

I have seen lots of average Joes driving fast well above the speed limits with one hand on the top of the steering wheel and another hand somewhere else (holding a smoke / mobile phone) and tailgate so close behind other cars... they must have skills and car brakes / tyres that can stop like those trained race drivers.


Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[nat225]

Seems like SEAT cheated unlike other manufacturers who brag about the lap times of their cars at the Ring. I'm sure no other manufacturer would use the best tyres available, or use a Touring Car champion to drive the car, or do a lap early in the morning when the temperature is optimum for a turbo car, or have a clear track with no other traffic. When Honda come out to try to beat this time I bet they play fair.
......

Which means the Honda's marketting director specific for the new Type R could be just a grad who completed uni a year before..

If they dont optimise every chances within the boundaries of factory produced car and legit options.



Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[brad]

Yes, I agree, but still - Go SEAT!

The treadwear rating is only 180

I think the TWA on my RE050As is only 140 - couldn't be shagged to wander to the garage & look so maybe it's 240. I'm sure someone will correct me shortly

[grandturismo]

From what I can gather this Seat Leon Cupra is pretty much a MK7 GTI, which makes me wonder what time the new GTI would do with the same driver or better driver and above tyres. I can think of some better tyres with the same treadwear TBH.

[jasn78]

To me I think running a pro driver should be a prerequisite of something like this. The reason being is there is a less a variance from one professional to another compared to one Amateur to another.

[Diesel_vert]

I suspect Bridgestone and Michelin (and maybe others) are "recalibrating" their UTQG numbers. Observe...



Road tyres (typical tread life of between 20 000 to 60 000 km for high-performance variants):

Bridgestone
The Potenza S001 (280 A A) is the successor to the Potenza RE050 & RE050A (140 A A). The UTQG numbers indicate an improvement of 100%, suggesting it'll last twice as long, but of course, Bridgestone directly indicate only modest improvements in wear - slightly less than 10%.

The Potenza RE-11 (180 A A or 200 A A) and RE-11A (200 A A) is objectively a gripper and better performance tyre than the RE050, RE050A and S001, but their respective UTQG ratings don't seem to reflect that (apart from the S001).

Michelin
The Pilot Super Sport (300 AA A) and Pilot Sport 3 (320 AA A) are both successors to the Pilot Sport 2 (220 AA A). The UTQG numbers imply a 36% & 45% improvement respectively in tread life, but again, Michelin directly quotes a modest 10% improvement.



Motorsport tyres (typical tread life of less than 10 000 km):

Bridgestone
The Potenza RE-11S and the Potenza RE55S would be the closest competitor to the Michelin Cup tyres, but I don't think these tyres have a UTQG rating. Tyres not sold in the U.S. don't require UTQG ratings.

Michelin
The Pilot Sport Cup 2 (180 AA A) is the successor to the Pilot Sport Cup (80 AA A). The UTQG numbers suggest it'll last more than twice as long as its predecessor. Again, Michelin only claim a 50% (not 125%) improvement in circuit wear, partly achieved by increasing the initial tread depth to 6.0 mm, compared to just 4.8 mm (!) for its predecessor.

(Most road tyres have an initial tread depth of between 7.5 to 8.0 mm).

Having said that, the average tread life of a Pilot Sport Cup tyre appears to be around 5 000 km, so I'd be mighty impressed if the Pilot Sport Cup 2 could manage even 10 000 km. Interestingly, Porsche "N"-rated Cup tyres seem to have a harder tread compound and give better tread life compared to regular Cup tyres.

Either way, one will be replacing these tyres more often than the oil is changed - as it ought to be, else you're just wasting money and grip.



Further information on the Uniform Tire Quality (UTQG) Standards: Tire Rack

[nat225]

I had the Potenza RE050A from GTI the factory option 18" and they had UTQG of 140. When I replaced them at 25,000km the thread depth was around 1-2mm in the middle section and 3mm in the shoulder sections (with 4 track days plus over 10 x 30 minutes track sessions), however others have reported 40,000+km mileage. Also had the RE040 in my previous car.

I always believed that the RE50A and RE040 UTQG of 140 were not comparable to other tyre brands.

Based on the above, if Renault Megane is to be tested again on the ring with the same Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 or other street legal track oriented tyres instead of the RE050A it used to claim 8:07:97; the Seat FWD record of 7:58 could be at risk!

The street legal track oriented tyres really do wonders to lap times

The new AD08R has a claim to be the fastest non semi slick race compound tyre with UTQG of 180... I wonder how this would compare to the Pilot Sport Cup 2...