DSG woes in The Age

[ill0gitech]

From my own experience; there are many people (not just the VAG car owners) who don't use their car properly.

How do you feel they are misusing - besides the brake and neutral comments we've made so far?

Did your daughter learn on an Auto or a Manual?
The habits people pick up tend to follow them from car to car. My fiance loves to rip the handbrake out of the car - because that's how her manual needed to be treated (this bugs me a lot)

[Transporter]

How do you feel they are misusing - besides the brake and neutral comments we've made so far?

Did your daughter learn on an Auto or a Manual?
The habits people pick up tend to follow them from car to car. My fiance loves to rip the handbrake out of the car - because that's how her manual needed to be treated (this bugs me a lot)

She learned in auto, can drive both now.

[VW_Perceptions]

Which year was the last ordinary 4 speed auto in a VW, and which models?

[wai]

The problem with making the system user adjustable is that you then have the situation where an owner "adjusts" it such that it destroys itself and then claims that if the manufacturer allowed the user to adjust it, anything in the adjustment range should not destroy the gearbox.

The fact that we are discussing how to drive it demonstrates a failure with VW. I have mentioned this elsewhere where it comes down to a different philosophy when it comes to performing tasks. Normally the Germans would have everyone go through a 3 day course (assessed of course), whereas the Americans simply let you loose. This sees things designed differently. Here we have had a complex device that is sold as something it is not, with those selling it having no knowledge about how it works, or how to use it, that then fails.

The reason we do not have "how to drive a torque converter automatic properly" is because of this different philosophy. The DSG is not an American design concept because they knew it would be difficult to get buyers to adopt it without problems. By the way, this is not knocking Americans. They are perfectly capable of understanding the concept of a DSG, it is just that from a manufacturer's point of view, it would likely end in tears (for them).

The DSG is a lot more efficient that a torque converter box, and this glitch should not mean we drop it. It needs to be made as foolproof as a Torque Converter Gearbox (let's start calling them TCG ) with us mug punters the fools. We do not want it to be so complex that we need a Masters Degree in Engineering just to put the ignition key in the lock. We do not want it to be so fragile that your sneeze sees it become a bucket of metal bits. We do not want 10 computers (or more) trying to control it where one tries to do something that another overrides and leaves you stranded. This takes time and costs money, but the bean counters running the car companies want to see results (read profits) immediately.

Well, they get their way, and we see the results amply demonstrated here. A company that had earned a reputation for producing a quality product absolutely trashed because it thought it could "fool some of the customers all of the time", and the ones who coined the response "standard for that type of vehicle". Reputations take ages to build and seconds to destroy. Rebuilding reputations takes a hell of a lot longer as they have to overcome the negative feelings left after a disaster of this kind.

[Transporter]

The recalls aren't that uncomon, many manufacturers have them and basically as the price of the car remained the same for more than a decade while the prices for almost everything else at least doubled, who wouldn't be surprised that there are recalls?

Don't just take my word for it.

Taken from here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_recall

Automotive Industry

In general, the number of recalls has been increasing - with an exception during the economic crisis 2009-2010 – due to time, cost and market pressure. Per year, global automotive warranties are estimated as USD 40 billion, 3 -5 % loss in sales. Low priced production often leads to minor quality, and outsourcing leads to a shift of knowledge concerning techniques and processes. This way, technical failures are more likely to occur due to communication problems between the different parties engaged in the supply chain and missing definitions for technical interfaces. Since most of the failures are introduced within the production phase, an early failure analysis can prevent from high recall costs and image loss. Usually, it takes 12 months from failure detection to correction. An image loss is then bound to happen and will require new, costly marketing efforts to improve it.

[VWDSGissue]

Here is the text from an email that a Fairfax journalist covering this story, sent out on 13/06:

START:

Obviously you would have seen the Volkswagen recall. Here's our story from today on the recall in case you haven't caught up with the news. VW faces $170m bill for recall

And here is a good Q&A that Drive did if you need some more information:
Drive - Volkswagen DSG Gearbox Recall | What to do

I know many of you have already moved on from your troubles with Volkswagen or are eligible for the recall and will hopefully have your issues addressed. Some of you, however, have missed out. Either the timeframe is too short for your car or the model doesn't qualify at all. Some of you have written to me about vehicles other than Volkswagen.
While I do want people to keep in touch about whether there are genuine holes in the recall, I just wanted to let you know that this is going to be hard for me over the next few weeks. I have a deadline for another story and I need to concentrate on that.

Many of you have written to me asking for advice. I don't really have any except the following things may help some of you:

1. VW said yesterday that they would, on a case-by-case basis, repay people who have already spent money on the injectors and DSG problems. The VW spokesman said in relation to reimbursing costs on DSG: 'As with the diesel injectors, we will evaluate all claims on a case-by-case basis and refund the customers as required'.

2. I'm not sure what to make of the issue with the 6-speed gearboxes. VW now insists it did a recall in 2009, which wasn't put on the ACCC website. It says that recall is 99 per cent done and the ACCC is urging people affected by that recall to take their cars in for service. But I can't get clarification from VW on exactly what this recall was for. It says it mirrored the DSG recall in the US in 2009, but there were two separate DSG-related recalls or campaigns in that yearin the US. I'm sorry I can't be more help with this.

3. It was interesting that the assistant treasurer David Bradbury was in the Herald Sun on Monday talking about consumer rights in relation to the car industry. The article is here No Cookies | Herald Sun

The interesting bit was this quote:
"Any suggestion by car manufacturers that cars need to be serviced at a licensed dealer to maintain the owner's consumer guarantee rights is not correct," Mr Bradbury said.
I don't know if that helps those battling with Volkswagen on some of these issues.

4. For those that still believe there are outstanding issues or just haven't done this already, you can complain to the Department of Infrastructure and Transport, which is investigating reports of VWs decelerating and is liaising closely with Volkswagen Australia. The Department provides advice to the ACCC on vehicle recalls.
The Department has told Fairfax Media that consumers can report their concerns in three ways:
• Filling in a vehicle defect form here: Manufacturer, Distributor or Supplier
• Writing to investigators through this email: vinvestigations@infrastructure.gov.au
• Or calling this number and asking for the team investigating the Volkswagen safety concerns 02 6274 7111
You can also contact the ACCC, or relevant consumer department in your state. eg. Consumer Affairs in Vic, the Dept of Fair Trading in NSW.

5. As I've written to some of you before, Volkswagen's public relations people said they were keen to deal with the issues of all those who have come forward to Fairfax Media. They asked for a copy of all of your details but I didn't obviously feel comfortable passing those on. So I told him I would urge you all to try the customer hotline on 1800 504 076 or the email vgasupport@volkswagen.com.au. I know some of you have done this with varying degrees of success.

6. I don't know what's happening with this, but lawyer Brett Saunders from Saunders and Saunders Legal said he is preparing a class action in relation to Volkswagen's issues. He asked me to pass on his details: 02 9488 9939
info@saunderslegal.com.au

7. If you are getting really annoyed about the whole recall system and are not making headway with the ACCC or the Department of Infrastructure and Transport, you can always write to their political masters. They are David Bradbury Home and Catherine King Home: Catherine King Federal Labor Member for Ballarat. Mr Bradbury, through a spokesperson, told Fairfax Media yesterday he through the recall system was "robust".

8. If you have your VIN you can work out what sort of service campaigns relate to your car using VW's global online site: https://erwin.volkswagen.de/ It’s a little tricky to use and you have to pay a little money for it.

9. Sometimes I post updates on this issue on my Twitter site twitter.com/melfyfe

10. And this - thanks to you many of you guys! - is our data analysis on the 300 people who came forward with complaints of sudden deceleration. You might find it interesting reading.
Charting Volkswagen complaints

END!


I have a 6 Speed DSG, which has a mechatronics failure but is not included in the recall. I have submitted the online form to the ACCC. I will be pursuing all the other available options. I ask that if you have a VW issue, which is not covered by the recall, you make as much noise as possible. That is our best hope of getting VW to fix our issues.

[sVWatt]

5. As I've written to some of you before, Volkswagen's public relations people said they were keen to deal with the issues of all those who have come forward to Fairfax Media. They asked for a copy of all of your details but I didn't obviously feel comfortable passing those on. So I told him I would urge you all to try the customer hotline on 1800 504 076 or the email vgasupport@volkswagen.com.au. I know some of you have done this with varying degrees of success.

I can attest to this. I replied to the automated email we all received from VWA Managing Director, expressing my disappointment with their handling of the issues, and blow me I actually got a personal reply. I am going to use this as a bridge building exercise and give them another chance.

[stormshark]

Hi,

Thanks for your message.

I have brought the car to the local VW dealer in April. They fixed the injectors issue but did not mention this issue. I bought the car second hand, so it may have been fixed before I owned it.

I had done about 75,000Km when the shudder became very obvious. The car does some commuting into Melbourne, so there is some bumper to bumper traffic but not more than 15 minutes a day, about 2 days a week. My other non-VW cars handle this, with no transmission issues.

VW have said the Mechatronics unit needs to be replaced, have quoted about $3,500 to fix it. I had started my own 'campaign' to get them to fix it for free, when the media took interest in the VW issues. If the recall doesn't include my DSG, I will have to keep going (the usual legal options, VCAT, join a class action, Youtube, media, a new Downfall video, etc.).

I hope VW don't just do enough to get themselves out of the spotlight. They need to fix all of the faulty DSGs, not just some of them.

Any further help would be appreciated.

Hoping recall/check things will include the 6 speed, i took mine back in twice early days after purchase, no joy- i've always been sure the mechatronics playing up, country driving 99% has led me to ignore issue, but now i'm hoping will be replaced.

[OilBurna]

I never saw anything in 2009 on a recall for the six speed what did it involve was it just a service campaign ie software uodate or did they replace mechatronics unit. So if we have a six speed we should book it in and say fix it as per 2009 recall?. Didn't Audi do a recall in 2009 on DSG's?

[wai]

I never saw anything in 2009 on a recall for the six speed what did it involve was it just a service campaign ie software uodate or did they replace mechatronics unit. So if we have a six speed we should book it in and say fix it as per 2009 recall?. Didn't Audi do a recall in 2009 on DSG's?

I think you will find that VW did this via a closed service campaign. Essentially, they would carry out what was in the campaign if the owner specifically requested it, or if on checking they fount a fault. The problem is that faults were not always logged in the ECU.

[davo]

Re: DSG woes in The Age

I never saw anything in 2009 on a recall for the six speed what did it involve was it just a service campaign ie software uodate or did they replace mechatronics unit. So if we have a six speed we should book it in and say fix it as per 2009 recall?. Didn't Audi do a recall in 2009 on DSG's?

A 2009 recall for the DQ250 is listed on the ACCC recalls website:

http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/1048814

But no-one seems to know about it now. Did anyone on here receive a letter back then? (I was happily driving a manual 2007 Golf at the time.)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[OilBurna]

Ok thanks might have to contact the dealer then. Never got a letter.

if you look at the recall notice above the PRA number at the top has a 2013 in it.. Interesting. I've checked my service records for 2010 (as car was done in April) and no mention of service campaign or recall for DSG. Anyone know what the fix was?

Found this from Audi - so looks like software update?

Audi—2009MY Audi A3 (8P) and TT (8J) Model vehicles—Software update of gearbox control unit
PRA number: 2009/11172
Date published: 23rd October 2009

Product information

Product description
2009MY Audi A3 (8P) and TT (8J) Model vehicles fitted with 6 Speed Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG).
Identifying features
Campaign number: 37E5
Target number: 420
What are the defects?
There is a possibility that the control unit in the Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) can cause a false temperature signal indicating that the clutch is overloaded. If this should happen, the control unit will open the clutch in order to protect the gearbox. As a consequence, the clutch protection function is activated, resulting in flashing gear-change indicator, uneven transmission of power, reduced engine torque and release of clutch.
What are the hazards?
Vehicle malfunction
Where the product was sold
Nationally

Supplier
Audi AG Germany and Audi Australia Pty Ltd
What should consumers do?
Audi Australia Pty Ltd will write to owners of all affected vehicles

[VW_Perceptions]

The reality is that the concept and the mechanicals of the DSG are probably fine. It seems to be the programming or controlling of it that is causing concern.

If it had an adjustable control, like you have for some suspension setups, more people might have less issues. Maybe they should have a mechatronics control knob where you can adjust to suit yourself - trade economy for better driveability (for example in the Tiguan). So you can set whether it changes up to 2nd in D mode at 3km/h for max economy or at a higher speed for better driveability in different traffic situations.

And yeah, i know this is supposedly why we have D, S and manual modes but changing between them all the time is a pain and even these 3 modes dont seem to suit a lot of us. Its like the 3 bears story - one bed too hard, one too soft, and one just right. The manual mode is probably just right but i didnt buy a dsg so i could change between 7 gears every 3 seconds.

One post i saw said

"The fact there is a thread titled "how to drive a DSG properly" means there is something seriously wrong.

I don't see any "how to drive a Ford Falcon auto properly" or "how to drive a Holden Cruze auto properly" .. Simply because they are automatic – ie "they just work" "

This begs the question how did the motoring press recommend a vehicle with DSG?
Did they actually drive one?
Did they put down their difficulties down to
a/ unfamiliarity with the technique to drive a DSG smoothly.
b/ blind faith in brand.
c/ what they had heard elsewhere in the media or read on the internet.

[Rawcpoppa]

DSG woes in The Age

Simple really. The issues don't show up early. Owners complain after usage for a while. Weeks or months even after using it as a daily driver.

Do the press there do long term usage reviews of cars? Like for a year like press in the US do?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VW_Perceptions]

Thanks Rawcpoppa