DSG woes in The Age

[brad]

Get a car with 3 pedals.

For many, this is not an option.

Some people are a bit uncoordinated. That's fine because they probably have other awesome skills (have many friends like this).

Some people are in heavy traffic all day & a manual would be extremely tiresome after a while.

Some people have to have 2 pedals due to a clause in their industrial award.

Some people have to make their car available to other users when they are at work. Auto is a bit more user friendly when driving an unfamiliar vehicle.

Auto + diesel seems to work very well.

Auto + towing seems to work very well.

Horses for courses

[wai]

I keep seeing this posted, along with comments that its an automated manual, not an automatic.
Since neither my VW dealer, nor the manual tell you how to use the DSG "effectively", I'd love to know how you're "supposed" to use it.

The clearest comments in the book about how to use it are: Don't press the accelerator when selecting a gear (with reference to moving through PRDS (not 1-7) and if the DSG overheats, drive faster or leave the car parked.

NB: This isn't a dig, this is a legitimate comment, I would like to know.

There are two basic things to remember with a DSG.

The first is that you do not creep forward continuously as this sees the clutch slipping. This will burn the clutch out and overheat things.

The second is you NEVER bring the car to a stop, then put the handbrake on and take your foot off the brake if you have it in D, S, Manual mode or R. This will see the clutch trying to engage and it will burn out and overheat.

I have never seen the but about pressing the accelerator and try and put it into D. That is silly and a no no with any type of automatic transmission.

One huge problem is that the vast majority of sales reps and customer service reps do not know how the DSG works, or these two basic rules.

Unfortunately VW assume that buyers will bone up on the DSG and work out how it should be driven.

[Rawcpoppa]

DSG woes in The Age

If you shouldn't creep forward how does one drive it in traffic?


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[team_v]

If you shouldn't creep forward how does one drive it in traffic?


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With a manual, or in manual mode and engage first gear?

[Rawcpoppa]

DSG woes in The Age

Manual mode creeping in gear 1 is different to D mode creeping in gears 1 and 2?


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[Blackdakdak]

You'd think both would be the same, computer controlled creeping. I have to use manual mode 1 to go up my short steep driveway as D mode tries to go into 2 halfway up and car almost stalls - shudders horribly. If u try to overcome this by using more throttle or S mode, you would drive it thru the back wall of the garage. Plus entrance is narrow so slow manual mode 1st gear is only option. Ridiculous you have to go to this extent to drive it. A normal auto does not have this issue and my wifes old manual Toyota echo goes up in first with zero problems and for $25k less. Manual mode is best for very slow steep offroad dirt tracks as well.

[ill0gitech]

Relevant question
Does this help at all?
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2000144

It's more advice than "here's how you should drive it"

Having a car that automatically selects gears, and guesses what gear should be used next is great, and innovative.
Apart from the "Don't put it in N as you can overheat the gearbox" (remember this from the manual, should have added that before) - the idea of overriding the gear selection to shift down earlier or driving in S/M to select gears yourself, and avoid braking in stop-start traffic doesn't seem like advice a dealer is going to give you, or the ideal way to drive a car that's designed to be smart.

The idea of a car learning your habits also kind of negates everything else that is said.
If VW wanted you to change the gears yourself, it should be clearer in both the manual and the instructions that come from them.

Blaming consumers for "using it wrong" is a bit unfair to the drivers. Especially when the traits to driving it well seem to be not putting it in N, not taking your foot off the brake when stopped, and not using your handbrake to hold it in traffic - which are all manual traits, and not how people are taught automatics.
Do some of these models come with 3 pedals for manual drivers? Sure. Not the Polo GTI though.
Do they have traditional automatics for auto drivers? Nope.

[DoggieHowser]

You'd think both would be the same, computer controlled creeping. I have to use manual mode 1 to go up my short steep driveway as D mode tries to go into 2 halfway up and car almost stalls - shudders horribly. If u try to overcome this by using more throttle or S mode, you would drive it thru the back wall of the garage. Plus entrance is narrow so slow manual mode 1st gear is only option. Ridiculous you have to go to this extent to drive it. A normal auto does not have this issue and my wifes old manual Toyota echo goes up in first with zero problems and for $25k less. Manual mode is best for very slow steep offroad dirt tracks as well.

Could this also be a function of power and torque as well? I have had very harrowing experiences trying to back up an automatic Maserati into a friend's used car showroom as well.

[davo]

There are two basic things to remember with a DSG.

The first is that you do not creep forward continuously as this sees the clutch slipping. This will burn the clutch out and overheat things.

The second is you NEVER bring the car to a stop, then put the handbrake on and take your foot off the brake if you have it in D, S, Manual mode or R. This will see the clutch trying to engage and it will burn out and overheat.

I find that the "Auto Hold" function is your friend for both of these: it makes it less likely that you will creep forward in traffic because you have to put your foot on the accelerator for the car to start moving, and it makes using the handbrake when stopped unnecessary -- you can take your foot off the brake pedal and the breaks will remain applied until you press the accelerator. I was wondering whether the DSG was the reason the Auto Hold function was introduced in the first place. Anyone got any insight into that?

[wai]

If you shouldn't creep forward how does one drive it in traffic?

What this means is do not inch forward by partially easing off the brake to creep forward. Wait until there is a reasonable gap and then move forward by taking your foot right off the brake and applying a little accelerator. The best gauge of this is whether the transmission shifts into 2nd. What some do is move a few inches at a time. Just because the car in front has moved a little, does not mean you should as well.

Basically, this means doing what you would in a manual. Yes, I do know someone who will hold his manual on a slope using the clutch only. Needless to say his clutches wear out relatively quickly. He actually believes he has learned a valuable skill and his attitude is "what else are clutches for"!

[wai]

With a manual, or in manual mode and engage first gear?

on D or manual mode, the clutch take up is exactly the same. All that changes is whether/when it changes up into 2nd.

[wai]

I find that the "Auto Hold" function is your friend for both of these: it makes it less likely that you will creep forward in traffic because you have to put your foot on the accelerator for the car to start moving, and it makes using the handbrake when stopped unnecessary -- you can take your foot off the brake pedal and the breaks will remain applied until you press the accelerator. I was wondering whether the DSG was the reason the Auto Hold function was introduced in the first place. Anyone got any insight into that?

Yes, Auto Hold is good, only you really need to be careful because after 3 minutes, the brake is released, and if your foot is off the brake, it will move forward

The other thing is that not all cars have it. The Caddy has Hill Hold which is similar, except the time goes down from 3 minutes to 3 seconds, and then as soon as it detects a change in accelerator position, the brake comes off instantly.

The thing is that when using the hand brake you need to be in P or N (or doing a hill start ).

[Guest001]

Basically, this means doing what you would in a manual. Yes, I do know someone who will hold his manual on a slope using the clutch only. Needless to say his clutches wear out relatively quickly. He actually believes he has learned a valuable skill and his attitude is "what else are clutches for"!

I learned a valuable skill when I did that 50 years ago when learning to drive.
It was to duck quickly before my father whacked me around the ear for doing it. ROFL

[Transporter]

It's more advice than "here's how you should drive it"

Having a car that automatically selects gears, and guesses what gear should be used next is great, and innovative.
Apart from the "Don't put it in N as you can overheat the gearbox" (remember this from the manual, should have added that before) - the idea of overriding the gear selection to shift down earlier or driving in S/M to select gears yourself, and avoid braking in stop-start traffic doesn't seem like advice a dealer is going to give you, or the ideal way to drive a car that's designed to be smart.

The idea of a car learning your habits also kind of negates everything else that is said.
If VW wanted you to change the gears yourself, it should be clearer in both the manual and the instructions that come from them.

Blaming consumers for "using it wrong" is a bit unfair to the drivers. Especially when the traits to driving it well seem to be not putting it in N, not taking your foot off the brake when stopped, and not using your handbrake to hold it in traffic - which are all manual traits, and not how people are taught automatics.
Do some of these models come with 3 pedals for manual drivers? Sure. Not the Polo GTI though.
Do they have traditional automatics for auto drivers? Nope.

My daughter's first car was MK5 Golf TDI with the DSG, as the young driver on her P plates she never mentioned to me that she would have any problem with driving the car, she has done 45,000km in it, been through Tasmania and many places.

From my own experience; there are many people (not just the VAG car owners) who don't use their car properly.

[Blackdakdak]

The reality is that the concept and the mechanicals of the DSG are probably fine. It seems to be the programming or controlling of it that is causing concern.

If it had an adjustable control, like you have for some suspension setups, more people might have less issues. Maybe they should have a mechatronics control knob where you can adjust to suit yourself - trade economy for better driveability (for example in the Tiguan). So you can set whether it changes up to 2nd in D mode at 3km/h for max economy or at a higher speed for better driveability in different traffic situations.

And yeah, i know this is supposedly why we have D, S and manual modes but changing between them all the time is a pain and even these 3 modes dont seem to suit a lot of us. Its like the 3 bears story - one bed too hard, one too soft, and one just right. The manual mode is probably just right but i didnt buy a dsg so i could change between 7 gears every 3 seconds.

One post i saw said

"The fact there is a thread titled "how to drive a DSG properly" means there is something seriously wrong.

I don't see any "how to drive a Ford Falcon auto properly" or "how to drive a Holden Cruze auto properly" .. Simply because they are automatic – ie "they just work" "