DSG woes in The Age

[VW_Perceptions]

If you were a Ford worker losing his job (not I) in the next couple of years, you would be probably wondering why people are buying VW's, given what has been revealed in the media recently.
As for the Ford it keeps going. No b/s about oh we got the engine management wrong?? and we have to charge labour at $giga per hour every couple of years.
So I tried to pose the questions:
What are the VW models that are reliable?
Which VW models have issues?

[muli]

Re: DSG woes in The Age

If you were a Ford worker losing his job (not I) in the next couple of years, you would be probably wondering why people are buying VW's, given what has been revealed in the media recently.
As for the Ford it keeps going. No b/s about oh we got the engine management wrong?? and we have to charge labour at $giga per hour every couple of years.
So I tried to pose the questions:
What are the VW models that are reliable?
Which VW models have issues?

Well not every body wants a large car or an fuel guzzler, im sure you know thats all ford produces in oz.
And the focus/fiesta are starting to have reports of false neutrals etc so maybe join a ford forum as well with the powershift boxes.

Btw brisbane is full of vw diesels, toyota prius is probly every 3rd taxi. I got told by a cabbie and reason for it was there was parts supply problems with falcons.

[Ideo]

If you were a Ford worker losing his job (not I) in the next couple of years, you would be probably wondering why people are buying VW's, given what has been revealed in the media recently.
As for the Ford it keeps going. No b/s about oh we got the engine management wrong?? and we have to charge labour at $giga per hour every couple of years.
So I tried to pose the questions:
What are the VW models that are reliable?
Which VW models have issues?

Is this your second account?

Are you perchance a grandfather?

How interesting. You come on here with questions about future impacts but you have your mind made up.

How is your diesel Golf that you will be keeping for another 5 years anyway?

[BluChris]

I think you'll find the issues with PowerShift were there at the start and they seem to be addressing them (try Googling Fiesta PowerShift America). So Ford haven't perfected the tech either, but I'm not seeing the volume of issues on the Australian Ford forums like you see here. That said, I avoided the whole issue by deliberately buying manual this time to get away from any form of DSG/DCT/CVT etc Sad though it may be if you want an 'auto' with longevity the old fashioned torque converter still has the numbers.

[ill0gitech]

If you were a Ford worker losing his job (not I) in the next couple of years, you would be probably wondering why people are buying VW's, given what has been revealed in the media recently.
As for the Ford it keeps going. No b/s about oh we got the engine management wrong?? and we have to charge labour at $giga per hour every couple of years.
So I tried to pose the questions:
What are the VW models that are reliable?
Which VW models have issues?

Because Ford have never had issues with Cars made in Australia.
Again - I'm not sure how Ford manufacturing has anything to do with VW DSG issues and linking the two is pointless, especially when Ford's own imports outsell their local models.

If I was a Ford worker losing my job, I'd be looking at Ford, the cost of manufacturing, the unions, and the government.
Blaming consumers is a little moot at this point, as disappointing sales figures, production costs, Ford's GFC decisions, and the long-decided plan to move to a one-platform process mean manufacturing is leaving Australia. Not just sales of Falcons, Territories, and VWs. If it wasn't cost and other issues, there's no reason why you couldn't build Tauruses, Mondeos, Focuses or Mustangs here.

Blaming VW for Ford leaving Australia also seems a little pointless, when this year alone, there are 5 companies outselling Ford, and VW is 2 spots behind.
And I'm sure none of those 5 companies have ever had any issues with any cars ever made anywhere.

Blame Ford for Ford, and VW for it's issues.

[muli]

Re: DSG woes in The Age

I think you'll find the issues with PowerShift were there at the start and they seem to be addressing them (try Googling Fiesta PowerShift America). So Ford haven't perfected the tech either, but I'm not seeing the volume of issues on the Australian Ford forums like you see here. That said, I avoided the whole issue by deliberately buying manual this time to get away from any form of DSG/DCT/CVT etc Sad though it may be if you want an 'auto' with longevity the old fashioned torque converter still has the numbers.

Few clutchpacks on focusfanatics but thats just a 2 mins look, i mean there aint that many here either surely?

[cmrtig]

So Ford haven't perfected the tech either, but I'm not seeing the volume of issues on the Australian Ford forums like you see here.

I would qualify that by saying VW haven't perfected within a particular car segment. VW can produce/source good and more reliable DCTs like the S-tronic in higher end Audis or even the PDK in Porsches, but then some of the cars would double in price. In trying to bring this tech to lower end of the car market VW have obviously under engineered some DSG models to make the cars more affordable and compete with the Asians. Being German (and no offence to Germans or Germany) they have found the error hard to admit ever since. Hopefully that is changing!

[wai]

I think you'll find the issues with PowerShift were there at the start and they seem to be addressing them (try Googling Fiesta PowerShift America). So Ford haven't perfected the tech either, but I'm not seeing the volume of issues on the Australian Ford forums like you see here. That said, I avoided the whole issue by deliberately buying manual this time to get away from any form of DSG/DCT/CVT etc Sad though it may be if you want an 'auto' with longevity the old fashioned torque converter still has the numbers.

I have to say that one of the major issues with the DSG type transmissions is that they are sold as "automatic gearboxes" when in reality they are "manual gearboxes that change automatically". If you drive a DSG type vehicle in heavy stop/start traffic like you would a torque converter automatic, then you are setting yourself up for problems. You would never drive a manual car in heavy stop/start traffic by almost continuously slipping the clutch, and you should not drive a DSG type vehicle like that either.

Yes, there certainly are issues with these gearboxes, but it would not matter what the fix was, if you drive a DSG type vehicle in such a way that the clutch is slipping in crawling stop/start traffic, you WILL have problems, no matter what size any oil cooler might be.

The problem is that many sales reps and service managers do not understand the technology, and I seriously doubt that the average member of the public would understand how it works.

It is sold as a "tech must have", and so VW (or whoever else uses this type of gearbox) do not want to have buyers go through a half day course on how to use a DSG equipped car. The problem is that they NEED to go through such a course.

As you say, it might just be a case of going with a conventional torque converter type automatic if you do not want to follow the operating requirements of a DSG. It is a known technology that works. This does not mean that the DSG technology should be abandoned. The only way we can advance the technology is to continue development. The key is not to rush these technologies out before the issues have been worked through. Financial pressures see technology released before the issues have been worked out, and therein lie the problems.

[wai]

I would qualify that by saying VW haven't perfected within a particular car segment. VW can produce/source good and more reliable DCTs like the S-tronic in higher end Audis or even the PDK in Porsches, but then some of the cars would double in price. In trying to bring this tech to lower end of the car market VW have obviously under engineered some DSG models to make the cars more affordable and compete with the Asians. Being German (and no offence to Germans or Germany) they have found the error hard to admit ever since. Hopefully that is changing!

Many years ago European vs American technology was explained to me like this.

In Europe, before they put you to work felling trees with a chainsaw, you are put through a 6 month training course on how to use a chainsaw. Only when you pass do they let you loose felling trees.

In America, they hire you, throw you a chainsaw and send you out to fell trees!

As a result, American chainsaws tend to be over-designed and built like the brick outhouse, whereas the European chainsaws are dainty units that will fall apart if not treated with kid gloves.

[markwid]

I have to say that one of the major issues with the DSG type transmissions is that they are sold as "automatic gearboxes" when in reality they are "manual gearboxes that change automatically". If you drive a DSG type vehicle in heavy stop/start traffic like you would a torque converter automatic, then you are setting yourself up for problems. You would never drive a manual car in heavy stop/start traffic by almost continuously slipping the clutch, and you should not drive a DSG type vehicle like that either.
....

It is sold as a "tech must have", and so VW (or whoever else uses this type of gearbox) do not want to have buyers go through a half day course on how to use a DSG equipped car. The problem is that they NEED to go through such a course.

I say that is a bull**** theory...

This is a consumer product, you don't blame the consumer for using the car normally. Heavy stop/start traffic is common occurrence in any large city.

So if the DSG is not designed, and built, to withstand such normal use, what good is it?

[Umai Naa!!]

He's got a point though.

You're kidding yourself if you think you can drive a DSG-equipped vehicle the same was an automatic. Sure, they have the same amount of pedals, and the gearstick looks pretty much the same, but everything you know goes out the window when you stab the throttle to make a quick getaway, leaving you the same effect as giving a manual car a gut full of revs, and dropping the clutch.

[THE_EGG]

I say that is a bull**** theory...

This is a consumer product, you don't blame the consumer for using the car normally. Heavy stop/start traffic is common occurrence in any large city.

So if the DSG is not designed, and built, to withstand such normal use, what good is it?

Agreed but he does have a bit of a point. I think the hard thing is that you can't modulate the clutch. Which means you don't really know how much the clutch is actually being used in a DSG equipped vehicle.

[Rawcpoppa]

DSG woes in The Age

Anyone blaming the consumer for how the dsg is driven in traffic is missing the point. Why?

VW does NOT tell the consumer anything about driving it differently than any other automatic transmission.

If it was down to how consumers drove in traffic being te cause of issues then why doesn't the dq250 suffer the same issues in heavy traffic on the scale of the dq200?

The consumer has no control over the clutch slippage for the most part. It is the last thing on their mind.


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[pologti18t]

This is a consumer product, you don't blame the consumer for using the car normally. Heavy stop/start traffic is common occurrence in any large city.

Some people can drive a manual car and not need to replace the clutch in 150,000km+
Another driver in the same model car will need a new clutch in 50,000km and blame the car

[nat225]

Well, if it is cooling the oil, it is a simple matter of adding an oil cooler attached to the radiator.

The other thing from this is that you DO NOT CRAWL.

dq250 in my gti and dq500 in my tiguan both have dsg fluid cooler above the gearbox fr factory.