Petition Against lowering and raising vehicle laws NSW

[The_Hawk]

It's an interesting one, the last line says "This VSI applies to vehicles modified or presented to an AUVIS after 31 July 2009."

So unless you need a blue slip or make a modification AFTER that date, you technically don't need a certificate.

Of course that doesn't mean you can't be issues with a defect notice and be forced to get the car checked and prove compliance, but then there is nothing new in that, you could get a defect notice today from a cop who thinks your car car is too low, or loud, or anything else outside the ADR's.

Assuming your not stupidly low and assuming you don't drive like a tool, chances are you won't get picked up.

[slpdesign99]

People really have brought this on themselves.

I'm not saying it was anyone here, but you only have to look at some of the crap driving up the street in the opposite direction to you to see why these laws are being introduced.

Look at all the crap that is way too low with cut springs (some even re-set with an oxy and a bucket of water!) etc. These cars are driving around the streets and the idiots behind the wheel are crashing them. And sometimes this is attributed to the dumb **** Ryobi springs they've got in them.

I'm completely against it, but once again, the ****head minority ruins it for the responsible majority.

So why not try and do something about it . at least I am trying something .or a we all that lazy and prepared to sit on our hands while the gov shafts us well done guys good forum !

if you dont want to sign then a least email the member the proposed these ill written changes why should the minority stiff it for all.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/pro...0!OpenDocument

[five2]

Sign a petition, write a letter or email to Mr. Daley... do something guys. In my opinion you are not a motoring enthusiast if you are going to sit back and say nothing.

This is a big deal whether you live in Vic,NSW,W.A... etc.

According to the new regulations if you have aftermarket suspension with the means of raising or lowering a vehicles ride height (eg. coilover suspension) you will require an engineers certificate for your vehicle to be roadworthy.

This isn't some bull**** law that may or may not come in to play, it's in for real on August 1st.

Do your bit for motoring enthusiasts across Australia.

[five2]

Assuming your not stupidly low and assuming you don't drive like a tool, chances are you won't get picked up.

Is that a chance you're willing to take? Police love a bit of revenue raising.

Get busted, pay the fine, pay for an engineers certificate to certify your king springs/coilovers etc.

Sounds like you enjoy gambling

I hope you don't own a 4wd either that may have had some mud tyres put on it or a slight suspension raise... you'll get busted for that too

[Preen59]

So why not try and do something about it . at least I am trying something .or a we all that lazy and prepared to sit on our hands while the gov shafts us well done guys good forum !

if you dont want to sign then a least email the member the proposed these ill written changes why should the minority stiff it for all.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/pro...0!OpenDocument

Settle down dude I've signed the petition. I just don't think there is anything that will stop them because no large motoring body in Australia is going to question them.

[five2]

"taken from 4wdaction.com.au"


This is a letter pen'd up by King Nothing over at outters for people to use edit paste copy whatever...... it is great penmanship and if you are not up to writing your own , may I sugest you us and mod this one......

Again Nice writting King Nothing

Mr Michael Daley,
Governor Macquarie Tower,
1 Farrer Place,
SYDNEY 2000

Dear Mr Daley

Vehicle Standards Information 50, Raising and Lowering Vehicles

I am writing to you regarding your press release on the 16th of July and
the release of VSI 50 on the RTA website on the 17th of July.

Apparently, according to your press release and this new standard, I am a
hoon. However I have never received a speeding fine, never been pulled over
for anything other than a random breath test, let alone even attempted a
burnout. Yet now, since I own a car with modified suspension, I am now a
“hoon”. My car was modified legally two years ago, and met all required
laws for registration and insurance. Yet now, with only two weeks warning,
my car may or may not be legal.

I take great offence at being labelled a hoon. I do not have a criminal
record, I pay my taxes and follow the road rules. I work as a professional
engineer and come from a family that traditionally votes Labor. However,
this new standard, and the direct and poorly managed impact it has had on
me, has caused me to re-think my voting decision come the next state
election.

I have a number of questions regarding this new standard, and how it
affects me. I have tried calling the RTA, they could not answer my
questions and have a number of questions themselves that need answering. I
tried calling my insurer, the NRMA, to see how my policy will be affected
after the 31st of July, and they could not give me a definite answer
either.

1. What statistics do you have that proves lowered or raised vehicles are
over-represented in vehicle accidents in NSW?

2. Have you consulted with insurance companies to determine the impact on
policy holders? My insurer cannot tell me if my car will be insured after
the 31st without an engineer’s certificate. This is completely
unacceptable.

3. I have been told by people that your staff are now hanging up on people
when they call your office to enquire about VSI 50. Why? The RTA cannot
answer our questions, so hopefully your office can.

4. Have you consulted properly with the industry groups that will be
affected by this? From my reading the Australian Automotive Aftermarket
Association has not been informed of these changes. They employ real people
in real jobs, Mr Daley. In this economic climate the government should be
doing everything in its power to protect jobs, not endanger them with
rushed policy. These companies invest thousands of dollars to ensure that
their products are engineered and constructed according to all relevant
standards. Yet you somehow feel that your judgement of 50mm is correct,
based on no evidence?

5. If this standard is implemented, who is required to prove if a vehicle
has been modified before the 31st of July 2009? Is it up to me to find a
receipt for work done 2 years ago, or is it up to the RTA or the police to
prove it was done after the 1st August? The best the RTA could tell me was
“if it looks older than two years old due to wear and tear”. They also
could not tell me who is responsible for providing proof. This is not
acceptable.

6. Have you consulted with any stakeholders whatsoever prior to this
announcement? To me it is clear that insurance companies, component
manufacturers, four wheel drive groups, car clubs, even the RTA itself have
not been consulted at all.

7. Do you feel it is even possible to have every car with modified
suspension in the state either engineered or returned to standard within
the next 10 days? Especially considering the complete lack of communication
to the public.

8. Is the NSW government going to offer a buyback scheme for those who have
already invested thousands of dollars ensuring that their suspension is
roadworthy and engineered in the 50-150mm bracket? These people, who have
followed the law to the letter and spend thousands doing so, are they to be
left in the cold due to these changes?

9. Is the NSW government going to offer subsidised engineering to those
whose suspension falls within the 0-50mm bracket?

10. Have you investigated the effect that this law will have on remote
communities which require tourism from the 4WD community to survive?

11. Why have RTA approved engineering signatories been told by the RTA that
all work after the 17th of July is invalid? Is this to prevent those who
have already spent thousands from registering their vehicles under the old
law?

12. How will police enforce these rules? Will every officer be issued with
a tape measure and a book stating the height of vehicles as specified by
the manufacturer?

13. What about so-called “dealer specials”, cars that have been
modified by car dealers to sell them? They are not how the manufacturer
supplied them, yet there are many on the roads and for sale in caryards
today. Not to mention ex-highway patrol cars bought at auction from the NSW
government with lowered suspension. Will these cars also be illegal after
July 31st?

The modified car and four wheel drive community is not a group of 17 year
old P-Platers driving around in 15 year old commodores with cut springs, Mr
Daley. Yet somehow you have swept everyone into the same group. Our
community is diverse. From those with properly lowered cars to improve
handling and braking, to people with raised four wheel drives to explore
our country and sustain local tourism. The so-called “Grey Nomads”,
retirees who have raised suspension to safely tow caravans across the
country and enjoy their twilight years. From young men and women in the
city, to farmers in the country. All of these people will be affected.

These groups create and support charity events and community. The Annual
NSW Variety Bash, the children’s charity. Volunteer 4WD enthusiasts who
maintain fire trails and clean up rubbish in our bushland. Countless
classic and modern car clubs across the state who raise money for charity
and support local communities by setting up car shows to increase tourism.
All of these will be affected by your poorly conceived, unrealistic laws.

Mr Daley, please withdraw your statement labelling all those with modified
suspension as hoons, it is offensive and borderline discriminatory. Please
remove the changes outlined in VSI 50, it is unrealistic, unfair, unplanned
and uncontrollable. It clearly has not been thought out properly, it is
simply an act to appear like this government is actually doing something.

How about the NSW government focuses on real problems, such as the
recession, the criminal way in which swine flu is being handled in our
hospitals (I know first hand!), public transport, housing affordability,
homelessness, traffic congestion, and crime, just to name a few. Not
putting on useless band-aid solutions on problems that don't exist, and can
cost people their jobs, in a recession, just so that the cardigan brigade
thinks the government is actually doing something.

I look forward to a personal response from you, Mr Daley. Not an automated
reply from your office staff.

Regards,

[Mrk_Mickey]

slpdesign99, You're a bit out of line coming to us out of the blue and asking for us to sign a petition, then when we say it's not that great and it seems pointless, proceeding to rhetorically question us and downplay our opinions.

The petition link is there, and people can read the thread and sign if they want. Thanks for the offer, here's hoping it works. I'm closing this thread because it's just another one of ''those threads'' that is eventually going to get out of hand.

[static1800]

For anyone wanting to email, phone or write Mr Daley see below link.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/Parlment/Members.nsf/c1f0a145443eba46ca256ce000181fd1/f81ed499e90a76a7ca25705700192d10!OpenDocument

I am going to open this thread back up, but it will be under very strict supervision, lets not turn this into a shouting match but use it for proper discussion about this proposed law and ways we as a group can try and squash it.

[slpdesign99]

VSI50 has been put on hold due to the huge reaction from the both the automotive industry and automotive enthusiasts. Apparently it is being revised with more input from across the industry and RTA, they have said delayed by 12 months.

press release here

http://163.189.7.150/newsevents/dow...cation_laws.pdf

[Spyda]

So whats the difference between the new law and the one we have now? I mean what do we have to do differently?

Drive it low, get done, go home fix it, drive over to your mechanic, drive to vic roads (or RTA), go home and lower it again....rinse and repeat.

Thinking about all the deadly accidents that have happend in lowered cars I dont realy think having the car at a normal hight would have helped to much. 180kmh is still 180kmh and im no expert but i dont think that stock suspention is going to help that VN SS stop or avoid a serious accident.

[Dub_Star_V6]

50mm up or down is reasonable in my opinion but if you think you actually NEED any more than that you've probably started with the wrong vehicle.

Any change to a vehicle's suspension should be signed off by someone in the know anyway, as lowering (or raising) a car changes far more characteristics than most people give credit for. Has anyone who has lowered their car 50mm or more ever actually calculated their roll centre? Didn't think so.

How many coilovers have nothing more than a cable tie securing the brake hose to the strut body? Many lowered cars have coils that fall out when you jack them up, 4x4's that have brake hoses that go tight on full droop, body lifted cars that have 2mm of spline left in the steering coupling etc.

Here's a link to an interesting blog written by a Newcastle-based RTA approved engineering signatory, and the Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association's response to the new regulations.

I think the point of this legislation was to stamp out morons installing dangerous mods, which I'm pretty sure everyone will agree is a good thing. Because regardless of who is doing the work, they need to be responsible for what they are doing. Although an arbitrary 50mm limit on raising or lowering cars achieves nothing as even an incorrectly fitted 50mm lift / lowering can be dangerous. That's what they're trying to stamp out with this legislation.

The government has vested interests and, in my opinion, did this as a knee-jerk reaction to appease the anti-hoon lobby. I think parts of it have merit (for the reasons outlined above) but it was rushed and ill-conceived, which is why, as slpdesign99 advises, it's now on hold.

[No457 Snowy]

How many coilovers have nothing more than a cable tie securing the brake hose to the strut body? Many lowered cars have coils that fall out when you jack them up, 4x4's that have brake hoses that go tight on full droop, body lifted cars that have 2mm of spline left in the steering coupling etc.

These are all very good points and very relevant to safety. One simple step forward to prevent a lot of that stuff from happening, I think, would be to make it law that any suspension install/modification must be done by a licensed/registered mechanic using suspension that has an accepted approval, either ADR or such as the German TUV approvals of KW and Bilstein or Koni. (which I believe are probably better standards than anything the ADR/RTA has). As opposed to now where people are buying dodgey springs or even cutting springs and doing backyard installs without training or knowing the ramifications of what they are doing. (such as stretching/snapping an unsecured brake line for instance, or ending up with unmatched springs/shocks).

The date of installation/modification could then be recorded as well as the height, min 100mm ground clearance, etc, of the vehicle when the work was completed and it left the workshop. Of course this would need to include a reasonable settling allowance, much like speedo error includes a +/- percentage.

This would address all of the issues quoted above without the Draconian steps being proposed by the Government and involving Engineers etc. I can't imagine any self respecting, qualified mechanic signing off on any of their own work which showed any of the above defective signs. This would at least address "dodgey" mods and installs "at the source" and time of install by a professional mechanic, without relying on Engineer's Certs and affecting aftermarket companies etc.

I would be happy with that move but others may see it as still too restrictive, what are people's thoughts?

Snowy.

[Preen59]

These are all very good points and very relevant to safety. One simple step forward to prevent a lot of that stuff from happening, I think, would be to make it law that any suspension install/modification must be done by a licensed/registered mechanic using suspension that has an accepted approval, either ADR or such as the German TUV approvals of KW and Bilstein or Koni. (which I believe are probably better standards than anything the ADR/RTA has). As opposed to now where people are buying dodgey springs or even cutting springs and doing backyard installs without training or knowing the ramifications of what they are doing. (such as stretching/snapping an unsecured brake line for instance, or ending up with unmatched springs/shocks).

The date of installation/modification could then be recorded as well as the height, min 100mm ground clearance, etc, of the vehicle when the work was completed and it left the workshop. Of course this would need to include a reasonable settling allowance, much like speedo error includes a +/- percentage.

This would address all of the issues quoted above without the Draconian steps being proposed by the Government and involving Engineers etc. I can't imagine any self respecting, qualified mechanic signing off on any of their own work which showed any of the above defective signs. This would at least address "dodgey" mods and installs "at the source" and time of install by a professional mechanic, without relying on Engineer's Certs and affecting aftermarket companies etc.

I would be happy with that move but others may see it as still too restrictive, what are people's thoughts?

Snowy.

I do have to agree with that.

TOf course this would need to include a reasonable settling allowance, much like speedo error includes a +/- percentage.

Oh, and the word you are looking for is "Tolerance".