Petition Against lowering and raising vehicle laws NSW

[slpdesign99]

Some of you may or may not be aware that the NSW Government has decide to make it illegal to raise of lower your car buy more that 50mm even with an engineering certificate to try and stop this a petition has been started and you can go here to sign.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/94/he...ed-cars-in-nsw

If you want to read more about the change visit here

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati...-july-2009.pdf

my interest is I don’t want these laws to impact Victoria as its already to hard for us enthusiasts to modify cars

[static1800]

I don't care about raising, but lowering yes.

[slpdesign99]

This will effect everybody. stand up for car modifiers rights. The problem is that the government wants to tell us what we can and can't do with our cars the modified car industry is huge and this is just another step to stop us basically having fun

so i ugre you all to sign remember any ride hight mods will need an engeenering certificate and over 50mm is illegal under these laws !

[brad]

That's a really crap petition.

The guy is more concerned about chassis fabrication (minority of population) than the +-50mm component which affects the majority of "modifiers".

[slpdesign99]

Well its the one getting around all and I mean all the forums.

I read that the petition is covering every aspect of the new law.

Did you read the letter ?

hey ist your call if you dont sign just dont compalin when lowered/modified cars are no longer allowed on Australia roads

[brad]

Well its the one getting around all and I mean all the forums.

I read that the petition is covering every aspect of the new law.

Did you read the letter ?

hey ist your call if you dont sign just dont compalin when lowered/modified cars are no longer allowed on Australia roads

Yes, I read the letter from start to finish complete with lousy punctuation and poor grammar. It rambles on & doesn't get to the point. The Public Servants will be off to the tearoom for a cuppa & a biscuit before they are through the 2nd paragraph.

The letter is supposed to be the argument or grievance that you are putting forward to the lawmakers, not some rambling diatribe better suited to an internet forum.

Here's a copy for everyone else to read:

With Strict new laws being implemented by the New South Wales Roads and Traffic Authority affecting the raising and lowering of suspension on any light motor vehicle, we the Enthusiasts are majorly affected with seemingly nothing that we can do to stop our passion and livelihood in some cases to be destroyed by misinformed state government figures.

We have a passion, a passion for cars and trucks. The Majority of Vehicle enthusiasts are not young P plater "hoons" as the media portray, but in fact people of all ages and backgrounds who share something in common which is the modification of their most prized possetion, their cars.

These new laws that Mr Michael Daley (NSW roads minister) has introduced, affect all aspects of vehicle modifiers state wide.

No statistics have been shown to the public of raised or lowered motor vehicles being the cause of accidents or even increasing the liklihood of an accident !

These laws have been brought in to which seems to be a scare tactic to the rest of the nation who use their cars and the road just for getting from A to B , the government are trying to make your average joe think that our modified vehicles put his life and his families lives at risk, not to mention the media showing cars doing burnouts and street racing , all of a sudden the nation thinks because our vehicle is modified that we are out street racing and doing illegal activity on our roads. Now the fact is some people choose to engage ina cts of stupidity and that is their choice, but enough is enough because we wish to have a modified vehicle we should not be portrayed under the same stereotype as law breaking citizens.

We need to band together, we need to show the public, the government and any governing body that our vehicles' can be modified and can be safe !
one major spanner in the works is the wording in "VSI 50" found at "http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_50_raising-and-lowering-vehicles_17-july-2009.pdf" "Chassis rails must not be notched or cut to lower a vehicle%u2019s ride height." now it has been a law for a long time for regular cars that are a monocoque body can not be tubbed or notched because it potentially can weaken that car and in an accident it could be for the worse. Now with full chassis vehicles such as minitrucks (utes) and hot rods / customs notches have been allowed if done correctly and certified by an RTA approved automotive mechanical engineer.
Now the RTA are telling us they will be banned across the board which is going to affect many many businesses and individuals alike !

another thing written in "VSI 50" is "Drop axles/spindles must not be used to lower a vehicle%u2019s ride height." Now there isno reason for these to be made illegal they are infact a great way to lower your vehicle, they maintain factory suspension geometry and in most cases lower the vehicle by 2 inches which is now the limit under the new legislation.

obviously the lowering of vehicles is more so affecting us but also rasing too, there are many thousands of 4x4 enthusists in this country. They go off the road they need to raise their suspension , and have larger than factory tyres. These new laws are now going to stop this from being possible if they wish to drive on the road and lets face it if done correctly and in some cases engineered then they are very safe for our roads and it is not likely that all 4 wheel drive owners that modify their off road designed vehicles are going to have another large vehicle that can tow their vehicle to where they wish to go offroad.

now these new laws as a whole have been released on the 17th of july 2009 and have been proposed to take affect on july 31st 2009. that is 2 weeks from release date. Now 2 weeks is not satisfactoy, i myself know of at least 50-100 vehicles being built within workshops and inhome garages, a lot are under instruction of engineers before they are finished and inspected. Now these vehciles apparently unless they are completed , engineered and registered by the 31st of july 2009 will no longer be able to be registered in NSW, this means potentially millions of dollars of motor vehicles that will never see our roads because of laws that are not fair nor needed.

Now the RTA have told me on the phone that they do not know anything more than what they read on VSI 50, so if they dont know , we don't know then who knows ?

there is much more detail this can go in but we will leave it at this at this point.

please sign this petition if you wish to see a review on these new laws that affect a large part of the automotive industry and community.

[Blitzen]

Like I have said before...Just register your car in another state...Cheaper too...

[team_v]

I don't see it working.

Petitions themslves are worthless without a proper register of the correct details of people who have signed.

Online petitions are even more worthless as there is no proof that anyone has actually signed up for it.

Best of luck with it though.

[Seano]

As a professional bureaucrat (not in NSW and not in automotive) I don't think your petition has much of a hope...

For starters....the 'ride height' rules stated in the VIS for lowering are based primarily on ground clearance....not stock ride height.

And they are a) ground clearance in a fully laden vehicle must not be less than 100mm within 1 metre of either axle AND b) must be more than 1/30th of the distance between the front and rear axles. Also - the running clearance (distance from the surface on which an unladen vehicle is standing to the lowest point on the vehicle excluding unsprung mass) must also be more 100mm. And the vehicle must be able to traverse a peak either side of a 1:15 gradient (basically a speed hump).

With respect to lowering......none of these rules seem particularily impractical. Sure there are restrictions in the methodology with respect to chassis mods and drop axles but just how common are these things in the VW community?

[The_Hawk]

As a professional bureaucrat (not in NSW and not in automotive) I don't think your petition has much of a hope...

For starters....the 'ride height' rules stated in the VIS for lowering are based primarily on ground clearance....not stock ride height.

And they are a) ground clearance in a fully laden vehicle must not be less than 100mm within 1 metre of either axle AND b) must be more than 1/30th of the distance between the front and rear axles. Also - the running clearance (distance from the surface on which an unladen vehicle is standing to the lowest point on the vehicle excluding unsprung mass) must also be more 100mm. And the vehicle must be able to traverse a peak either side of a 1:15 gradient (basically a speed hump).

With respect to lowering......none of these rules seem particularily impractical. Sure there are restrictions in the methodology with respect to chassis mods and drop axles but just how common are these things in the VW community?

Thats how I read it too... can anyone point out what the actual changes are to this part of the standards?

AFAIK it's always been 100mm of clearance, the rest I'm not sure, although it would be interesting to see a proper 1:15 testing rig somewhere to try and drive over. (mind you I would suggest that many (if not most) speed humps are worse that 1:15)

edit: I do note that it says ALL lowered vehicles need to be certified, this may very well be a change. So does this mean if your car is already lowered you now need a certificate to say it's fine??

Mind you with coils there it's not exactly hard to wind it up, get it checked, then wind em back down now is it?

[Mrk_Mickey]

I installed my suspension myself, so the authorities have no idea when it was put it. I could just say it was installed in 2000 and it's passed rego 9 times since then...haha

[ozgti]

Thats how I read it too... can anyone point out what the actual changes are to this part of the standards?

AFAIK it's always been 100mm of clearance, the rest I'm not sure, although it would be interesting to see a proper 1:15 testing rig somewhere to try and drive over. (mind you I would suggest that many (if not most) speed humps are worse that 1:15)

edit: I do note that it says ALL lowered vehicles need to be certified, this may very well be a change. So does this mean if your car is already lowered you now need a certificate to say it's fine??

Mind you with coils there it's not exactly hard to wind it up, get it checked, then wind em back down now is it?

All the docs, both the VSI50 and the press release state that you can not change the height of the suspension without going for an engineer's certificate, NOR go more than 15mm in tyre diameter. That means, you put a set of H&R -15mm, you need to get a cert. IF you car has a cert and you get defected for whatever reason, you have to go over the pits and are then subject to the new regs, not the original regs you were engineered at.

basically, if you change the height of the centre of wheel to bottom of wheel opening dimensions, then you can be defected and in essence are driving an illegal and dangerous car!

In all honesty, PIGS ARSE!!! but it's the govt throwing their weight around... well Mr Daley actually

[Maverick]

Like I have said before...Just register your car in another state...Cheaper too...

And not legal either, you may as well not bother registering or paying CTP because you won't be covered by the CTP and your car will be deemed to be not registered after a period of time.

The NT for example deems your car to be unregistered if you are a resident in the NT and have not transfered the registration withing 28 days. Even for visitors you only have 3 months. Most of the other states have similar laws.

http://www.nt.gov.au/transport/mvr/general/infobulletins/ibg07.pdf

CTP won't cover you either as they consider it to be fraud and refer it to the police. TAC state it clearly on their website and other states all have similar conditions.

http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/jsp/content/NavigationController.do?areaID=25&tierID=1&navID=EFDFDAC17F0000010110F06769A6061E&navLink=null&pageID=1088

The TAC Charge for a motor vehicle varies according to the type/use of the vehicle (class) and the postcode where it is usually kept (risk zone) and whether it is owned by an eligible pensioner.

http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/jsp/content/NavigationController.do?areaID=25&tierID=1&navID=165D7EB07F00000100FE73810015C08D&navLink=null&pageID=1742

OFFENCES AND PROCEEDINGS UNDER THE TRANSPORT ACCIDENT ACT 1986
Part 8 of the TA Act 1986 outlines the provisions of the Act in respect of offences committed by a person which involves:

fraudulently obtaining or attempting to obtain, any benefits
providing false or misleading information
obtaining benefits that are not payable
failing to pay the full amount of the transport accident charge
obstructing or hindering the administration of the TA Act.

And there's insurance hassles if you insure in another state as this falls under you not disclosing relevant information and they can refuse to pay out any claims and cancel your insurance (leaving you with a black mark against you for a long time that will cost a lot in extra premiums).

It's false economy to fraudulently register a car in another state because when you claim there is a high risk that you'll be caught out.

[Preen59]

I installed my suspension myself, so the authorities have no idea when it was put it. I could just say it was installed in 2000 and it's passed rego 9 times since then...haha

Considering you were barely out of preschool in 2000 i doubt that will cut it dude.

[Preen59]

People really have brought this on themselves.

I'm not saying it was anyone here, but you only have to look at some of the crap driving up the street in the opposite direction to you to see why these laws are being introduced.

Look at all the crap that is way too low with cut springs (some even re-set with an oxy and a bucket of water!) etc. These cars are driving around the streets and the idiots behind the wheel are crashing them. And sometimes this is attributed to the dumb **** Ryobi springs they've got in them.

I'm completely against it, but once again, the ****head minority ruins it for the responsible majority.