VW T5.1 excessive oil use

[Bryn23]

It was the 5 cylinder R5 engine AXD and AXE and only up to 7/2006 that had the excessive valve train wear if some smart alek used different than VW506.01 oil in them.

It's good to clear that up, I'd read somewhere that people were having issues with using 507, when they should have been using VW 506.1 " for some reason i had 504 in my head"

My point was that, if the an oil is spec'd, you should use it as it can cause issues later on, such as what happened with the AXD and AXE engine.

From reading about this issue in the last few hours from overseas, what has come up is a common theme, is it does appear there are long periods between servicing. "not all of them"

Most people, don't take into account "Severe Conditions" heat is defiantly one of them, as is carrying heavy loads, as is stop and start city driving, which is what most people buy the van for and we are a in a hot climate.

The longer servicing periods were to reduce the downtime of servicing for the commercial side of things, but i don't think its a great idea for VWA to allow long servicing periods here. it's misleading to a point as it varies, case by case.

I know that the Honda servicing has changed on our Honda to 6 months instead of 12 months, i was told due to Australia's heat.. but whether that is the real truth or just a way to make extra $$$ from servicing.

But its still worth asking the question is what was changed after the 2011 model in the engine, if it was a design flaw that increased advanced damage by longer servicing periods, then these guys should have a case.

[hoddy]

I'd say that the engine is prematurely worn out as a result of incorrect service regime.

With respect, I do think you are missing the point. VW changed something after 2011/12 to prevent this happening again.
Don't you think that piston ring failure and EGR corrosion are more synonymous with defects rather than service regime?

[Umai Naa!!]

I'd personally change it at 10,000km, just as i'll change the oil out after the first 1500km. its just something that i believe in, and oil is cheaper than an engine rebuild.

I don't believe in long life oil, as it does appear to be thinner..

I do agree with using the correct oil spec, i did notice, people using 507 oil instead of 504 oil were having cam wearing issues (if i can recall it right) as the 507 didn't have an additive.

Whether it makes a difference in by changing the oil early at all, i don't really know if it would help in this instance.

If it is a flaw in the engine design, oil change wouldn't have made a huge difference..

The key is finding out what was done to the later engines to resolve this issue, as then under your AUS rights, you can proof it wasn't fit for use, hence the redesign.

Hopefully you can get VWA to the table to pay for most of it... i wouldn't expect them to pay 100%, but getting of with 70% would help.

Keep us informed, with your research..

It's a dual-spec oil. You can't buy just a 504 or 507. 504/507 only.

FWIW, the 504/507 is rated for up to 30K drain intervals, but I would strongly advise against that. 15K/12 months whichever comes first, as an absolute maximum. There is no approved alternative oil for these at this stage.

[Bryn23]

It's a dual-spec oil. You can't buy just a 504 or 507. 504/507 only.

FWIW, the 504/507 is rated for up to 30K drain intervals, but I would strongly advise against that. 15K/12 months whichever comes first, as an absolute maximum. There is no approved alternative oil for these at this stage.

Well there you go, I learnt something new today, i wasn't aware it was a Dual Spec Oil, Transporter pointed out it was a 506.1 Spec oil that was causing issues with the AKD and AXE due to using it instead.

As for the 30k drain intervals for 504/507, Wow, having said that they must be confident in the Oil.

I still maintain that fresh oil is cheaper than repairing a Diesel, although servicing costs have certainty crept up over the years.


Have you seen any of these issues that Hoddy has, or know of what was changed engine wise.

After seeing how VWA owner were treated after the transmission issues, it's going to be a battle, but one worth fighting for if it is indeed a fault of flaw in the engine design.

[Transporter]

It's good to clear that up, I'd read somewhere that people were having issues with using 507, when they should have been using VW 506.1 " for some reason i had 504 in my head"

My point was that, if the an oil is spec'd, you should use it as it can cause issues later on, such as what happened with the AXD and AXE engine.

From reading about this issue in the last few hours from overseas, what has come up is a common theme, is it does appear there are long periods between servicing. "not all of them"

Most people, don't take into account "Severe Conditions" heat is defiantly one of them, as is carrying heavy loads, as is stop and start city driving, which is what most people buy the van for and we are a in a hot climate.

The longer servicing periods were to reduce the downtime of servicing for the commercial side of things, but i don't think its a great idea for VWA to allow long servicing periods here. it's misleading to a point as it varies, case by case.

I know that the Honda servicing has changed on our Honda to 6 months instead of 12 months, i was told due to Australia's heat.. but whether that is the real truth or just a way to make extra $$$ from servicing.

But its still worth asking the question is what was changed after the 2011 model in the engine, if it was a design flaw that increased advanced damage by longer servicing periods, then these guys should have a case.

You're right on the above.

I don't like their and the OP's chances at +130,000km and the van now 7 years old.

Don't get me wrong, I wish them good luck with getting it fixed.

[Umai Naa!!]

506.1 was required in T5s with the 2.5 TDI, prior to 8/2007.

[Transporter]

I'm quite sure it was prior 7/2006.

[Umai Naa!!]

You could well be correct.

[Sunny43.5]

From our book 2.5 128 kw AXE with long life service program QG1 VW 506 01 without long life service program QGO or QG2 VW 505 01

[Transporter]

From our book 2.5 128 kw AXE with long life service program QG1 VW 506 01 without long life service program QGO or QG2 VW 505 01

That's from 2004/2005 book and corrected later as far as I know.

Many earlier T5s with 2.5 TDI used wrong oil specs and paid the price later. The Penrite back then had an oil with not approved specs HPR0 0W-30 (506.01) and also HPR Diesel5 5W-40, but soon stopped recommending it to be used where VW506.01 is required. The Castrol only supplier of approved VW506.01 was supplying only to VW dealers, in other words, you couldn't buy it, or order it even if you were retailer or workshop.
Later, around 2009/10 you could get Fuchs/TITAN oil that was VW506.01 approved. Today there is also LIQUI MOLY with the right specs for before 7/2006 T5s AXD and AXE engines without DPF.

Use anything else in these engines and they will not last!

[wanderingwilson]

I currently own a 4motion 5.1 2010 CFCA powered Transporter ex Ambo purchased 2014. No oil consumption around town but up the highway exceeded 2 ltr / 1000km. Local Dealer took my case to VWA in late 2014 at 115000 km.They finally came back with an offer of 70% of Parts and Labour for rebuilt engine including new long motor and cylinder head. It included 2 year Parts Warranty and cost me around $4.5K which I considered a reasonable deal for a new engine. I am a qualified Diesel Mechanic but try as I may I could not get a straight answer as to cause of the problem or access to the failed engine .Feel free to PM me for specific details. Cheers

[Bryn23]

Hi Wanderingwilson,

Thanks for posting about your issue and offering the affected guys, specific details via pm.

It would have been nice to know what the problem, but i would imagine VW would keep that card close to its chest.

$4.5k for a new engine is pretty good.

[Sunny43.5]

Not 100% certain of this but I am sure I read somewhere that VW deliberately build the engines these days with a certain amount of tolerance in the bore and pistons etc. Apparently the thinking was to reduce the amount of run in time where the first wear and tear would occur , so that could be the reason for early oil consumption . The only down side of that thinking is if the tolerance is too excessive at the start of the engines life it would only be logical to expect oil consumption to get worse as time goes on . I also believe its morally wrong and maybe illegal for a car maker to get an oil and then make it exclusively their own so as to prevent anyone else from getting access . A bit like a few years back when car makers were trying to stop unauthorised mechanics from getting access to factory codes and updates etc . Apparently this was challenged in the US and they stopped it from happening , I don't think they tried any further with Australia thank goodness .

[Transporter]

Not 100% certain of this but I am sure I read somewhere that VW deliberately build the engines these days with a certain amount of tolerance in the bore and pistons etc. Apparently the thinking was to reduce the amount of run in time where the first wear and tear would occur , so that could be the reason for early oil consumption . The only down side of that thinking is if the tolerance is too excessive at the start of the engines life it would only be logical to expect oil consumption to get worse as time goes on . I also believe its morally wrong and maybe illegal for a car maker to get an oil and then make it exclusively their own so as to prevent anyone else from getting access . A bit like a few years back when car makers were trying to stop unauthorised mechanics from getting access to factory codes and updates etc . Apparently this was challenged in the US and they stopped it from happening , I don't think they tried any further with Australia thank goodness .

You might as well be talking about the VOLVO. You can get their latest oil exclusively from the dealers only.

[Craigs902]

Ok I've been following this in the UK for a while now as I own a 2nd hand 2104 Biturbo CFCA motor I'm a bit concerned.
It appears that all CFCA models with a "A-C" Suffix on there EGR will be affected in some time. What happens is the fins in the EGR foul up and can't handle the heat then corrode, break apart and all of the waste goes into the oil in the motor and completely stuffs the motor. If you are losing oil it's too late, you will need to get a compression test done on your van to see what bores have been affected. Running clean oil and flushing the motor out a couple of times may help but the damage has already been done. For some reason if you go over 110km per hour you will see more oil consumption, I guess the thinner oil just burns through the rings.

So far over 150 Biturbo vans in Germany have been affected follow it here https://tx-board.de/threads/oelverbr...zaehler.94482/

The FB page for monitor is here https://www.facebook.com/groups/vwcfca/

I think everyone here who owns a Biturbo should join the FB page just so you can keep up with what's happening.

Here's an article from Norway about the ambulances with a CFCA motor. It was published in 2016 where VW replaced the whole fleet because of the "A" suffix EGR cooler problem.

https://honestaboutcars.com/tag/engine-replacement-t5/