Lift kit for T5 4 Motion - supplier?

[Markee]

Hey Bryn I'm thinking they will settle a little but not that much. If they don't I'll be looking into some rear diff spacers to help with the increased rear drive shaft angle just to be on the safe side. In saying this does anyone know where to get the diff spacers from?

I'm getting Dynamic Wheel Co steel wheels in 17x7.5 ET30 with Toyo Open Country A/T II in 245/65x17, chose this package on recommendation from a good friend who owns a Tyrepower store.

[Bryn23]

Im not sure where you can get the the diff spacers apart from a lift pack. there are a few people on here that already have a Seikel kit

Maybe one of them could measure the diameter and height of the front and rear spacer, then all you need to do is get an engineer to dock solid aluminium or steel to the right height and then mill the bolt hole and supply proper graded lengthen bolts.

You may find others might be interested in a group buy to bring down costs, as quite a few people on here are running just the King Springs and might be interested.


This is from a T4, but it shows you the spacers

Those tires are huge, rolling diameter of 750.3mm, thats a good 60mm more rolling diameter, good load ratings 111 for the passenger and 117 for the LT version, were are you going to keep the spare tire? i recall somewhere on the forum that the wheel well could fit 738mm?? if i recall right, i may be wrong.

Toyo Tires Australia - Open Country A/T II

[Bryn23]

Not sure if this will help, it's a Seikel Install guide

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0ahUKEwi097f84OrPAhVEPz4KHSd6BN0QFghGMAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fseikel.ru%2Ftech%2FT5%2F353E_Installation_instruction.SUS_T5-4Motion-04.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFkBd5JbLzMj8qcbEA7ImrtsGwFWg&cad=rja

[Markee]

Cheers for the info.
Re the spare. I will probably just carry a repair kit and compressor for longer adventures but for round town/to and from work, I would just use the standard height spare. I've done a lot of research in the past about 4wd systems and I'm not too worried about driving a few kms on the std spare. If you understand the mechanical side of the Haldex diffs you'll work out pretty quickly how it's possible to do it for short periods and not do any damage. But I'm not advising anyone to take my advise, do your own research and find out for yourself. My experience comes from racing turbo AWD Subaru's a decade ago.

[Bryn23]

Too easy,

I've owned 2 new Subaru's a 2003 WRX and a then a 2005 Liberty GT

I know the AWD pretty well, once you go AWD it's hard to go back.

[MAD]

Hi there. Love to hear more about the Diff Lock retrofit. Did you get this to work. Am looking for 2nd hand van, anodes with locker are rare as hens teeth so retro fit details would be good.

sorry for late reply,
I couldn't find a secondhand van with difflock either, although NSW ambos and Police should have it!
bought my diff with diff lock before i bought the van!

Its working but not factory yet, needs to be programmed to ABS etc but this will be after extended warrantee runs out,
Note this is not a 5 min installation, took 3 months of research to find all parts and connectors/ terminals required had to decipher VW schematics which I had to pay to find on Erwin @ $30 per hour! (i had a spare car to drive during install, also van is not my daily driver yet)

Main thing is you need to find a Diff with diff lock fitted already otherwise it'll get really hard and expensive, Note VW quoted $10,000 for a diff with the haldex and diff lock, the haldex is not required as the one on a non diff lock van will still work ( note: if its the same generation!!!!!), just needs different loom between the difflock sensors and haldex (3connectors not 2) and a single code digit changed in the haldex controller so it recognises the difflock and tells the haldex to lock when the rear axel is locked, (note : this also requires the ABS to be recoded as the haldex sends this signal thru "canbus" to the ABS)
or you can just run it independent without signal to haldex but this still requires slip of the front before the haldex clutches engage ! (my current version)

you need to be a mech and a tech and understand schematics , programming (if going the true factory version) and be able to think really technically, also have to install vacuum valves hoses fittings brackets make looms to the controller and dash buttons which all have to be purchased,

I was thinking of making a kit but i don't have time yet would be another year away at least! kit would not be cheap and would still require diff to be sourced ! (note: there's many types and versions of this diff , it seems to change sightly every year model but should still be compatible if the same haldex generation, 2010-2014 is genIV i believe, others years i don't know)

The difflock should be a standard feature of all 4 motion vans not an option! VW should wake up to this as many people do not understand 4motion does not mean it will work well off road and if they don't know what diff lock is or that its an option will not order it!
The Option is very cheap compared to retro fitting it, no one at VW knows how to retro fit it and recommend buying a new van!!!! told me it was impossible and it would need a new BCM (it does not), I replied you don't know me and as it seems your own vehicles either, have you studied the schematics?, I was correct , its possible and it works and will work factory in a year or so after abs unit is coded (stops difflock being engaged at wrong times , adds speed warnings and disables a few things when locked such as ABS, traction control, ESC etc)

If you have time, money, very high technical knowledge and a spare car Id say ok, try it , but note I'm not ur average garage hack and it was still difficult to do properly,

Id recommend finding a van with it already fitted and leave this as a last resort, otherwise you must find a diff before finding a van they are rare, (Unless you want to buy all the individual parts and machine the housings as well, another member did it this way think (dubberoffroad ?) and even machined spines very expensive and time consuming also))

Let us know what you decide but keep looking for a van with it already installed , or buy new if you can afford it and make sure it has the option, id help but i just don't have time, I have a million other things to do to my van still and have to many hours at work,

Best of luck

Mad

[Markee]

Here's mine. Ride is incredibly good, it has probably even gotten better than the original ride to be honest.
Suspension: 30mm raised King Springs front and rear although the rear are sitting at 50mm higher which I don't mind as once it's loaded I'll still have the same clearance as the front.
Tyres: 245/65 17 Toyo Open Country A/T II Light Truck version with a 121 load rating
Rims: Dynamic Wheel Company Sunraysia 17x7.5in ET30 5x120 in black, load rated to 1400kgs so perfect for me, centre bore mounted for the perfect fit.
Overall I haven't gone any bigger than the legal 50mm both ways for here in Vic so pretty happy.
Total lift is 50mm front and 80mm rear averaged out over both ends from stock.

[MAD]

Here's mine. Ride is incredibly good, it has probably even gotten better than the original ride to be honest.
Suspension: 30mm raised King Springs front and rear although the rear are sitting at 50mm higher which I don't mind as once it's loaded I'll still have the same clearance as the front.
Tyres: 245/65 17 Toyo Open Country A/T II Light Truck version with a 121 load rating
Rims: Dynamic Wheel Company Sunraysia 17x7.5in ET30 5x120 in black, load rated to 1400kgs so perfect for me, centre bore mounted for the perfect fit.
Overall I haven't gone any bigger than the legal 50mm both ways for here in Vic so pretty happy.
Total lift is 50mm front and 80mm rear averaged out over both ends from stock.

Hey Dude,
Looks cool mate,
Could you please give a dimension "from centre of wheel hub to under arch's" so we can see measured amount of the lift,
Do you have pre install measurements as this will also help people on this thread to see what actual measured outcomes they may get from different lift kits (note: not all base models are the same height from standard)

Hows first gear torque with those tyres ? as you've added about 9%, just interested as I've heard above 7% you loose to much low down torque, and Seikel do not recommend going above 235/65R17 without the low ratio gearbox mods,
are you manual or DSG?

Don't want to put a downer on things but how did you get 50mm diameter increase from 245/65/17 tyres?
As that is an actual increase of 60mm
235/55/17 =690mm
235/65R17 =737mm (+47mm (+7%))
245/65R17 =750mm (+60mm (+9%))
235/70/R17 =761mm (+71mm (+10%))

Don't get me wrong I think your van is cool as but not quite sure its legal and don't want people being misled into thinking it maybe when it may not be,

Regards

Mad

[Markee]

Hey Mad I could get measurements from the middle of the wheel now but I didn't do it initially as it was not accurate enough.
I did get the following measurements from the ground to the middle of the wheel arch at original height, with Kings Springs fitted then with the wheels, tyres and suspension all measured the same way.
Also note that all measurements were taken with some load in the back behind the seats and some on the drivers side, at a guess maybe 150kgs worth of tools and gear.

HEIGHTS - from ground to centre of wheel arch
Standard with factory wheels
Passenger side
Fr 762mm Rr 769mm
Drivers side
Fr 765mm Rr 770mm


With King Springs and factory wheels
Passenger side
Fr 785mm Rr 830mm
Drivers side
Fr 780mm Rr 830mm


With King Springs and after market wheels and tyres
Passenger side
Fr 810mm Rr 855mm
Drivers side
Fr 815mm Rr 850mm


First gear feels the same to me, I don't think I lost too much torque overall to be honest, it doesn't bother me either way as I will be getting it dyno tuned eventually. Mine is a 6 speed manual.
The height increase comes from the following:
30mm raised Kings Springs front and rear but actually got 25mm in the front and 60mm in the rear.
Yes tyres are 60mm greater overall but technically you only get half that in ride height increase so 30mm from the tyres.
The tyres themselves are light truck version and because of the heavier construction they can have a deeper tread of 12mm over 9mm standard tyres in turn giving longer tyre life and a bit more lift.
Yes I did get a 60mm increase in overall tyre diameter but 10mm over doesn't bother me as it will wear out over time. So I will retract my statement of them being legal as I said above to not give people the wrong idea.
It sits up a bit high in the rear but I'm happy with it as when I load it up for work or play it will level out nicely.

[Murphenzo]

Awesome to see all of these other lifted big wheeled T5s popping up! Also happy to see the king spring option works well. I would have much preferred to have done that than drop the coin I did on the Seikel kit.

Markee: How are the 245s going for clearance? They must be pretty close in the rear arches? Had it in the mud yet?

MAD: I'd like to pull up some of the misperceptions that have been commonly told about "losing torque" with the larger wheels. The torque measured at the wheels doesn't really matter. What makes a car accelerate is power. With the bigger wheels we haven't lost any. I.e. with my 7% larger tires, my car isn't 7% slower.

What we have done is effectively increased the gear ratios. This does mean that the engine will be at slightly lower rpm (and hence sitting slightly further down its power curve) for a given car speed. But it's a tiny difference that's fairly imperceptible on the road and off-road.

Say I'm tackling a steeper climb off-road in my van, being an early 2.5L T5 with its light switch power delivery, I need to keep it on boost above 1400 rpm. I can't remember the exact figures, but say 1400rpm is 15km/h with normal tires, with the bigger tires I need to do 16 km/h (7% increase). As long as I keep it above that it'll drive up anything.

[Toa84]

What tyre pressures are you guys running in your 235/70R16? I'm currently running 44psi all round.

Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk

[transparu]

Folks, FWIW, in the last couple of weeks I have a couple of quotes for lift kits for my 2012 T5.1 4motion campervan, so HD springs in rear, at least.

From Seikel, and based on my VIN, including postage 1716Euro or about $2529 landed. Not sure what duty there may be yet. There would be fitting on top of that, of course.

From Trakka, apparently the same kit was quoted as (Desert kit) $3,750 including fitting and wheel alignment or $3,000 supply only. Trakka is a long way fro where I live.

FYI only.

Mainly due to my indecision and having other things on my mind I'm not going ahead with a lift kit at the moment - maybe later - though I have put on larger tyres.

[johannvisser]

How about this, a quick lift solution for the front. Screws on top of existing shock and lift the front. At the back you can use spacers between the spring and the body

[SvenOz]

Re Difflock

sorry for late reply,
I couldn't find a secondhand van with difflock either, although NSW ambos and Police should have it!
bought my diff with diff lock before i bought the van!

Its working but not factory yet, needs to be programmed to ABS etc but this will be after extended warrantee runs out,
Note this is not a 5 min installation, took 3 months of research to find all parts and connectors/ terminals required had to decipher VW schematics which I had to pay to find on Erwin @ $30 per hour! (i had a spare car to drive during install, also van is not my daily driver yet)

Main thing is you need to find a Diff with diff lock fitted already otherwise it'll get really hard and expensive, Note VW quoted $10,000 for a diff with the haldex and diff lock, the haldex is not required as the one on a non diff lock van will still work ( note: if its the same generation!!!!!), just needs different loom between the difflock sensors and haldex (3connectors not 2) and a single code digit changed in the haldex controller so it recognises the difflock and tells the haldex to lock when the rear axel is locked, (note : this also requires the ABS to be recoded as the haldex sends this signal thru "canbus" to the ABS)
or you can just run it independent without signal to haldex but this still requires slip of the front before the haldex clutches engage ! (my current version)

you need to be a mech and a tech and understand schematics , programming (if going the true factory version) and be able to think really technically, also have to install vacuum valves hoses fittings brackets make looms to the controller and dash buttons which all have to be purchased,

I was thinking of making a kit but i don't have time yet would be another year away at least! kit would not be cheap and would still require diff to be sourced ! (note: there's many types and versions of this diff , it seems to change sightly every year model but should still be compatible if the same haldex generation, 2010-2014 is genIV i believe, others years i don't know)

The difflock should be a standard feature of all 4 motion vans not an option! VW should wake up to this as many people do not understand 4motion does not mean it will work well off road and if they don't know what diff lock is or that its an option will not order it!
The Option is very cheap compared to retro fitting it, no one at VW knows how to retro fit it and recommend buying a new van!!!! told me it was impossible and it would need a new BCM (it does not), I replied you don't know me and as it seems your own vehicles either, have you studied the schematics?, I was correct , its possible and it works and will work factory in a year or so after abs unit is coded (stops difflock being engaged at wrong times , adds speed warnings and disables a few things when locked such as ABS, traction control, ESC etc)

If you have time, money, very high technical knowledge and a spare car Id say ok, try it , but note I'm not ur average garage hack and it was still difficult to do properly,

Id recommend finding a van with it already fitted and leave this as a last resort, otherwise you must find a diff before finding a van they are rare, (Unless you want to buy all the individual parts and machine the housings as well, another member did it this way think (dubberoffroad ?) and even machined spines very expensive and time consuming also))

Let us know what you decide but keep looking for a van with it already installed , or buy new if you can afford it and make sure it has the option, id help but i just don't have time, I have a million other things to do to my van still and have to many hours at work,

Best of luck

Mad

Thanks for the details.

Sounds like a BIG job. Mechanics/vacuum, OK. Electronics? I'm, pretty handy, have done fairly major mechanics including engine rebuilds, replace clutch and tranny on a Renault 12 (n/s transmission with driveshafts of the side was pain), diff swaps, axle shafts on solid ales on a number of vehicles, etc, etc, good with basic electronics, but maybe not what's required for this, particularly the reprogramming.

Finally found a van in December 2016, and flew to Geelong (from Sydney) in January to collect. Hard to get an SWB manual 4Motion as they are nearly all auto and I wanted manual. Mine is a 2006 2.5 4Motion SWB 3 seater. Getting a manual SWB was hard enough and spent 12 months looking and none with a diff lock and manual! So stuck without the locker.

Am upgrading from a Subaru Outback (wanted AWD with good clearance that can be slept in), so today its at Heasemans getting lifted KingSprings (the HD, not the Extra HD), and PolyAir bags in the rear. Decided to go this more expensive way rather than have the Extra HD as heard they are harsh in an empty van, and aiming at keeping mine light, under the minimum 500KG constant load required for the Extra HD. Onboard compressor is on its way for the airbags and possibly the spare tyre as may have to stow it flat depending on the size I go.

Next is a Reimo pop top roof and roof bed (booked in for July in Brisbane), then a row of seats to take my 3 seater to 6 seater (space for the dog on a seat, wife, child, and a couple extra passengers (in no particular order), or 6 all up and dog on a lap), then fit the bashplate that's sitting in the garage at the mo.

Then its AT tyres, and possibly some wider steel wheels to suit (taking the fairly ordinary condition alloys off).

Then a minimal camper fit out, primarily:
- semi-flexible solar panel on roof;
- replace current Redarc dual battery system with CTEK 250S and Smartpass to better suite the solar;
- mains power and battery charger to pre-chill the fridge and trickle charge the second battery full before heading off, and mains power in the van if available at site (although that's rare as usually avoid powered locations);
- small inverter for computer when needed;
- basic light drawers (more rack drawers to sit tubs in) and a chest fridge in the rear;
- middle seats fold down and have a folding bed base on top of the seats and drawers;
- water tank under the van, and pump and tap inside; and
- awning.
Not a full kitchen fit out as don't like cooking in the van, and prefer to set up outside, and sit outside.

Pity the locker retrofit is so involved, and there is no alternative. I agree the locker should be standard on the 4Motion, and in some countries it is standard.

Sven

[SvenOz]

RE 3200GVM / Lift / Diff spacers

Hey mate

Apparently (though I've just read this somewhere, so not sure its correct) you can get the T32 spec (3200 rated) in Australia, as the Ambos and Police use. These have a more reinforced chassis than the standard, and different wheel bearings, and entirely different carrier and struts to the standard, thus using the 'Maxi' kit from Seikel which will not fit a standard van (contrary to popular belief).

The issue is that the dealers know nothing about this, or how to order it. You need to deal with VAG Australia direct, so they sort out the order codes, and then they provide the dealer with the order codes needed to order the van.

For lift, you can go Seikel, or if doing the KingSprings, Heasemans have specially made for them longer Bilstein shocks (I understand they basically got Bilstein to make the same rear ones they make for Seikel), and diff spaces (alloy discs, just like Seikel's), so not too different to a Seikel kit, although I think the spring rates may be different, and its not quite as high. There are other options such as Mad Cross Country, although I think you have to order from Europe.