T5 Multivan Conversion to 8 Seater

[VeeDubVanMan]

Is it possible to replace the middle-row seats in a T5 Multivan with a bench seat, so that it will carry 8 passengers? If so, what bureaucratic hoops do I have to jump through to make it legal: eg Engineers' Certificates, RTA, ADR Compliance, etc? My Multivan has the rail system, and I am in NSW.

[I know that if a forward-facing bench seat is located in the middle row position, that it makes it difficult to access the rear seat. I also know that it is not possible to face the bench-seat rearwards without modifying either the bench seat or the rails.]

Appreciate advice on this issue.

[heyasam]

Have you seen these? http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/sprin...at-/1177475174 my understanding from my t3 was when wanting to register the vehicle as now seating 4 instead of 2 I needed an engineers certificate. However as these are factory seats with no modifications might be another way to do it. The right engineer would know. Call a few of them and explain, most I've talked with have been very helpful. Someone else on this forum must have experience with this seat?

[Scarfies]

Did you get anywhere with this? I know someone with an as-new bench seat. He's had in storage since he bought the van new in 2009 and had it converted to have a wheelchair ramp and tie downs for his son. He didn't know there was market for the things

FYI he also has the picnic table...

[Sunny43.5]

To help clarify a couple of things , when you add seats to any van its not just the seats that have to comply with ADR's but the mountings as well . The next part of the puzzle is you should only use seats from the same model as you have as older seats may not be compatible with current ADR's . Now even factory seats WILL have to be certified as as your original seat rails etc may not have been designed as a 3 seater UNLESS it was a factory option . Its a legal minefield when it comes to modifications in cars etc , even adding one extra seat can push the van into a totally different classification . Here are some things you can check first .
4 BASIC MODIFICATIONS WITHOUT CERTIFICATION
The following modifications may be carried out without certification under an LK Code, provided
that the vehicle continues to comply with relevant ADRs and AVSR and provided that the
vehicle meets the following general safety requirements.
4.1 OPTIONAL SEATS
Manufacturer’s optional seats may be fitted provided that:
 the seats, seatbelts and all other associated components are from the same make and
model as the vehicle to which they are being fitted;
 the installation is in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications;
 all components used are unmodified;
 the seating capacity is unaltered; and
 the safety features of the seat are not downgraded (e.g. seats fitted with side airbags are
not replaced with seats that do not have this feature or are not compatible with the parent
vehicle safety systems).

[TonyMax]

...the seating capacity is unaltered...

You may find that a phone call directed to the right person in your state registration authority can tell you what hoops you need to go through to add one to your seating capacity.

Interesting that while the Multivan was always only a 7 seater the Caravelle can seat up to 9.

[Kiels3927]

You may find that a phone call directed to the right person in your state registration authority can tell you what hoops you need to go through to add one to your seating capacity.

Bloody Queensland wanted me to pay for a Green (?Blue) Ticket to pull the two back rows of seats out of my modified T4 when my son was carting his band gear around in it.

Sorry officer, they're just out being reupholstered.

[Sunny43.5]

Bloody Queensland wanted me to pay for a Green (?Blue) Ticket to pull the two back rows of seats out of my modified T4 when my son was carting his band gear around in it.

Sorry officer, they're just out being reupholstered.

Yes that is correct , I used to be an Authorised Officer for Qld Transport and recertified hundreds of cars vans mini buses etc . The law is fairly specific with modifications . If you add or remove any seats it should be recertified . Now there is a reason why and it seems our legal system is the cause . If the vehicle is involved in an accident were an occupant is killed or seriously injured , the compulsory third party insurance company will use every single letter of the law to get out of making a injury or death claim . So if your van was registered as a two seater and you fitted a single or another bench seat in the rear and did NOT get it certified those extra passengers would not be covered by insurance they will use that against the owner driver . Same applies to removing seats as well believe it or not , best option would be is to not remove any certification plate that may cover the extra seats if they need to be out of the way like in your sons case . If there was a court case the van would have the mod plate but as you said the seat was out for repairs . Naturally you would need convincing evidence to support that . Now the other stupid rule was if you modified the capacity there would be a plate affixed to the van . That plate is not to be removed , so if you then decided refit or remove any seats after the first certification you have to go through the whole stupid process again and then affix another plate to the car and on it goes !

[ozgti]

Interesting...

I have spare bench seat and I think the feet can be Swapped front to back meaning the bench can be out in backwards... 8seater with the back row facing each other. It's an option I'm toying with especially in lockdown and boredom sets in, but I'll need to call the engineer when I can get to it.

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[Sunny43.5]

Another legal minefield , normal forward-facing seats are tested with or without seat belts attached, if the seat was placed in a rearward-facing position that's a whole new ball game. The backrest needs to comply for then the occupants in that seat . See in forward position the test is only done on the backrest and its OWN mountings to the base . In a rewards position the seat AND three occupants are tested as in a forward collision the weight of the occupants is then against the back rest and the weight for that test from memory is over two tons of load , no forward facing seat will withstand that test and failure will happen . We used to do rearward facing seat conversions in Toyota Hi Ace Commuters being converted to wheel chair access , we had to construct and test massive steel cross network of box bracings directly behind the driver passenger place . We actually purchased a partially damaged body shell and mounted it on a load test frame we built for RSJ steel beams , the body was bolted to the frame and then once we built the box section and seat dummies were placed on the seat and the appropriate load was exerted and because of that we actually bent the body a small amount during the test BUT we did get it passed . If your bored you can read this as it contains lots of technical mumbo jumbo read from section 7 onwards Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 68/00 - Occupant Impact Protection in Buses) 2006

[syncro91]

Yes a good point Sunny

In the Multivan, as has been noted here, it is not possible to place the 3-seat in backwards. If the seat were modified, even if seating capacity not changed, engineering certification would be required against LK2.

Interestingly the Multivan single captain's chairs that are ordinarily abeam the sliding doors are certified for forwards and rearwards facing travel.

Now the interesting bit...

The single rotating captains' chairs when fitted with an Australian child seat (which always has top tether) may only be used in the forward facing position. However, if the seat is one that has the factory integrated child booster then the young person may travel in forward or rear facing position. Makes sense.

[ozgti]

Does anyone have a part number for that head rest bolster thing on the convertible t6 seats?

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[The_Hawk]

The single rotating captains' chairs when fitted with an Australian child seat (which always has top tether) may only be used in the forward facing position. However, if the seat is one that has the factory integrated child booster then the young person may travel in forward or rear facing position. Makes sense.

I find that odd too. I full grown adult is fine reward facing, but a child in a child seat is not?? Surely, even with child seat the combo is less weight than an adult?

Maybe it's about the child seats themselves not being rated for rearward travel?? So this just reflect that as a reminder?

We have run them rear facing, although only a handful of times when we had extras in the van and they wanted to talk. It's also partly because a child seat reward facing blocks a whole lot of the access to the sliding door making it impractical.

I wish we had the integrated booster seats as my flock of midgets are short so could really benefit from the extra height in the seat... even at 12 and 15!

[Sunny43.5]

It would be because chid seat manufacturers test them for forward facing only , obviously baby capsules which are facing backwards are designed that way for safety . If you watch test results you can see if the seat is placed backwards then in a collision it will get flung upwards causing serious injury . I have said it so many times before what price do you place on your childs life , if you change any seat without first getting ALL the information from an Engineer or the manufacturers then don,t do it . Most child seats are held by either ISO fittings or the most common one which is a seat belt and top tether strap .

[syncro91]

I find that odd too....

Maybe it's about the child seats themselves not being rated for rearward travel??

Yes that is it - as Sunny43.5 correctly notes they are only tested forward facing. The Top Tether acts as a restraint in a forward direction collision. Correctly installed, it will hold the child seat firmly to the OEM seat - the strap holding the seat as the forward force acts upon it. If reversed the strap would not perform it's function.

The curiosity is, that one would expect the seat backrest, when reversed / facing backward, would hold the child seat very well irrespective of the top tether. But given most Australian child seats retain the design that pre-dates the approval of ISOFIX, relying also on the inertia seat belt, this may prove problematic.

Given the very small number of seats that are able to be reversed, and no requirement for aftermarket car seats to be designed for this relatively rare use case, no testing or data is likely available to confirm our theories

And yes, the Multivan integrated child booster seats are just fantastic.