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  • Well the last round of the NSW State Hillclimb Championships is done. Had a small field this time mostly because a lot of the classes (including ours) had been decided a while back so there were a few no shows. I was against a junior in an SS, a pretty seasoned hillclimber in a new SS and Andrew in the vette. Basically the young guy in the commodore was on fire and untouchable and did a mid 26 which is real fast. He's been making the cuts in the junior programmes which lead to an Toyota 86 Cup drive, getting lots of coaching etc and has come on massively this year. Home track helps (I did smash him at South circuit though ha ha) but he was on another level and got first. I thought I was ok for second but the other commodore got past me by 3/10ths on the last run which sucked but ultimately my target was the 27's and I nearly got there (28.03s) so cant be too unhappy on an outright power track with only 2 real corners.
    Positives of the day were that for a hillclimb, 215 medium fronts seem to outgrip 195 softs as fronts, and that running whats left of my 195 softs on the rear wasn't a bad pairing. The car was uncharacteristically loose on corner entry into the first corner of the esses but I think that had more to do with generally poor rough road riding from the suspension than anything else. To have not had any big moments on what to me is the scariest fastest place you could run at was a plus and I think it'll be a great setup for rallysprints and tight hillclimbs in the future.
    Negatives were watching a guy (my previous nemesis who moved to Imp prod) have a truly massive off at the fastest part of the track. He'd gone through 'the fork' the narrow kink right bend between Armco and tyre wall but got crossed up. He may have over corrected but a mate of mine who was there at the fork in the spectator area said that he just kept the slipper into it as though he was confident he could drive out of it - problem was the tail went back out to the right as he left the road that way. Luckily it was the tail of his car and not his door that went into the tree (you'll see the tree in an upcoming vid) which then spun him back around the other way and he fired off backwards over the tyres and through the trees on the left of the track. Andrew and I who had completed our runs were puffing our way back up the hill to get back to our cars when we heard the slide, the crunch and then looked up to see his car in full airborne flight sailing like a UFO through the trees. It was literally jaw dropping followed by '**** that could have killed him'. The crews were onto it asap. He'd given the thumbs up and was trying to bail from the car because he was worried that he'd be spilling fuel but the ambos kept him in the car for a while to check him before he got out under his own steam. He'd actually made the switch to Imp Prod so that he could be caged, seat, harness, hans because he'd always said that road reg was getting too dangerous since we basically aren't allowed any safety gear. To put that in perspective on the lower horsepower tracks a lot of us in road reg class have been going quicker than him and other imp prod cars this year (extra weight and less wings are his problem apparently), but he made the right call that's for sure. To this moment after seeing him literally flying airborne through the trees I don't know how he walked away from it and am not sure that the same could be said for me if it was my car that did it. It was Mega and rattled me for sure. It is different when you know the guy in the car too. I cant say it affected my subsequent runs but it'll take a bit of forgetting.
    Anyway his car is basically dead, he is alive and we all now want cages!
    Second negative was my cars inability to ride the rutted track surface well. My first run was diabolical, just plain scary. Going through the kink it felt like the car was just sailing from the top of one bump to the next and I had very little feel as to what was going on with the fronts. I should have been getting through flat but had to lift a bit before turning in on each run - I got deeper and deeper but flat stick and just steering it through wasn't on today. It was pretty loose on corner entry into the esses so I took two clicks out of the rears and one out of the fronts (thinking I'd soften it overall and go a bit more on the back at the same time). I dropped the tyres down to 28 psi all round rather than my usual 29 front 30 rear as the run is just so fast that no temp rise was actually happening. This helped on the second run (improved by 1.5 sec), but after the big crash and being stuck at the top till they cleared him meant that the third run was on stone cold tyres again. I didn't want to add another suspension change to a third variable so left everything where it was and went up again. By then though we only had one run left due to all the delays so I left it again for the 4th run. If I'd had the 2 more runs we had expected at the start of the day I'd have made more changes but as it was it was very jittery over what is admittedly a ****e surface and just wasn't inspiring enough confidence for me to really go for it. Like I said I was bummed I didn't crack the 27's but for me I have to do it all in the corners and given the crash etc it was probably too risky to throw it in any harder than I was when I didn't feel 100% comfortable. So I need to work out (with 1 way adjustable damping) what I should have been doing there. I opted to soften off thinking excess bump was the issue, but possibly I needed to go the other way (more clicks in) so that I had better rebound to control the springs better over the bumps,ripples, depressions. Still not sure?
    Last edited by sambb; 16-09-2018, 10:00 PM.

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    • here's my vid of my last run. Note how bumpy it is, how narrow it is through the fork and the tree on the inside as you go through the fork. Vids never do justice to how full on this place is - looks like a sunday drive when I watch it back, but anyway here it is:

      YouTube

      P.S I want more power
      Last edited by sambb; 16-09-2018, 09:52 PM.

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      • ouch... trees and hills are scary... I don't think hillclimbs are for me - I'd love to go rallying one day but it'll be in something under-powered and well-caged, but for now, motorkhana in a nice wide open area or circuit with runoff areas

        you don't need more power, you need to start racing down hills instead of up them - double your power right there

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        • Great work Sam. I was 100% affected on my later runs by seeing Geoff, but it was a good day anyway. As you say, super exciting but scary track, wish I'd got another couple of runs at it.

          A few pics of your car popped up on Facebook from here:
          Huntley Hillclimb NSW Championships Sunday 16/9/2018

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          And here: %26__tn__%3DEH-R%26cached_data%3Dfalse%26ftid%3D&mdf=1]Facebook

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          And yeh, ouch.

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          • my mate that was up at the spectator area was saying after run 1 that someone was going to have a big off - like there was something in the air. He said everyone was just going for it having big moments etc. Where I really noticed the lack of grunt was coming out of the esses. Through the second corner I'd be feeding it in as early as I could within reason (the road cambers off to a ditch on the right and sort of sucks you in if you understeer) but it somehow (for a Ko3s!) felt like it was under the turbo a bit and wouldn't rip up that last bit. Definitely a K03 hybrid or K04 track.

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            • Thanks for the pics Andrew. In that second pic it really shows how close to the road the tree is. I don't know how he went from sliding through the fork to hitting the tree with his right rear so quickly - must have been a massive slapper he had on. I ddnt realise that he actually tore the Armco out of the ground and it wasn't there for our later runs. Man looking like at that its a miracle his tank didn't rupture or even tear fuel lines out or something as he went into vegetation. Don't think he'll be able to say a roo ran up the back of him.

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              • Andrew did your speedo ever record your peak speeds - cant remember if you said you'd hooked that up or not.

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                • I checked it this morning, 139km/h. Not sure how accurate that is, it's gps based so tends to lag slightly behind actual speed. And I was also well down on speed compared to what I could have been, as looking at my in-car I never went flat through turn 1, and slowed down early and more than I needed to for both the fork and the eases. I'd expect Geoff was going faster than that.

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                  • In Improved Production I campaigned heavily about removing safety limitations as a method determining a car's category/class eligibility. For example we used to have limitations on roll cages extending outside the passengers compartment, until the threat of lower leg damage was pointed out. Personally I was pretty lucky to survive a multiple roll over at Fairbairn Park in a car without a roll cage, because of category/class limitations. It's well overdue that that stupidity was removed.

                    There will be an Official's report on the accident and I would suggesting insisting on it being brought forward at the next NSW Hillclimb Advisory Panel.


                    Cheers
                    Gary
                    Golf Mk7.5 R, Volvo S60 Polestar, Skyline R32GTST

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                    • As far as I'm aware, there's nothing stopping safety gear in Road Reg except for the issue of being road registered and required to present to vehicle in a roadworthy/road legal state. Makes a full cage very difficult, a half cage is reasonably doable, but particularly for a car with back seats requires engineering certificates and having the car re-registered as a 2 seater. I can't really imagine anyone complaining if you were to show up with a bolt in roll bar/cage, given you could bolt it in for the event and remove it when you got home - but by the rules they could. Seats are another discussion. Harnesses should be fine as long as the standard belts are retained. I guess an exemption in the rules for safety equipment could be made, but then they run the risk of upsetting relationships with police/community if that person should drive their car around or to and from the event and be pulled over. Not sure there's an easy answer. For me, I will be getting a bolt in half cage before long (was already my plan, I started talking to a local cage builder a few months ago), but as my car is a two seater that presents far less difficulty than it does for most others in the road reg classes.
                      Last edited by metalhead; 17-09-2018, 04:57 PM.

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                      • The problem is this reg
                        Cars must have full road registration, registration papers must be presented at scrutineering. The car as presented must be able to pass registration check.
                        What the reg should say is The car as presented must be able to pass registration check excluding any safety related items fitted as per CAMS General Requirements. eg; roll cage, driver's seat, seat belt, fire extinguisher etc.

                        Transport to and from the event is solely the entrant's responsibility. That reg wording currently prevents people from trailering otherwise eligible road registered vehicles. Limiting safety shouldn't be used as a way to determine what class/category the car fits into. Classes/categories are about splitting relative car performance, it should never be a split based on how safe they are.

                        Cheers
                        Gary
                        Golf Mk7.5 R, Volvo S60 Polestar, Skyline R32GTST

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                        • Agreed. The majority of Road Reg entrants trailer their cars as it is, as insurance in case of breakage.
                          Last edited by metalhead; 17-09-2018, 06:09 PM.

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                          • yep that's exactly it. I had a guy threaten to protest me because I'd taken my back seats out. I told him he was an appendage, he told me I wouldn't pass rego like that. I said its a hatch and the seats are designed to be removable and they do not form a firewall and he left it alone, but at the next meet he quoted that exact bit, that I had to be able to pass rego then and there. No one will protest you Andrew for having the harness and seat (now that that d**k is gone) but if he comes back he could.
                            I'm really torn with what to do. I don't think I can run a harness with the shape of my upper seat. I'm open to thoughts on that. I can easily put a harness anchor right at the back of the boot or even get a weld in rear strut brace and come off that. But with stock seat (not legal to have a 1 piece in a hatch that's not an engineered 2 seater) I could only run a 4 point harness anyway. The engineer I spoke to said he wasn't a big fan of 4 points due to submarining and said it was debatable I it'd be any safer than a lap sash anyway.
                            Whats your take Gary - assuming I could run a 4 point with the stock seat, are they any safer than a lap sash? If yes to a 4 point/stock seat then I'd need something to look after my neck yeah. Would one of those collars be enough as a HANS can be dangerous in compression if the roof comes down yeah?
                            Last edited by sambb; 17-09-2018, 08:22 PM.

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                            • these are the ones I was thinking of:





                              They can disconnect between the tailstrap and main part of the harness, because they bring both shoulder straps to a common point behind the seat back they might be ok with a stock seat (in terms of not letting a shoulder strap slip off the side, and they have a stitched 'ratchet' in the inboard shoulder strap so that some asymetrical upper body movement occurs which they say stops submarining. Harnesses with this system cant be used with a HANS though.

                              This vid seems to show that its safer than a 3pt or a normal 4pt. As always its open to interpretation:
                              YouTube

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                              • I honestly believe that I wouldn't be here if I didn't have a 4 point harness in the rollover. It was a clip in style, with the steel loops at the normal mounts for the sash plus loops at rear for the harness using the rear seat belt sash mounts. The angle was in line with the regs. It lived in the garage and I just clipped it in at the track and then removed it for the trip home. My son lost the Evo at turn 1 at Eastern Creek (around 170 kph) and it went diagonally backwards into the wall, breaking the OE Recaro seat back. It was lucky it had washed off a bit of speed and hit the tyre barrier, if it had gone in at full tilt he probably wouldn't be walking around today.

                                They screw into the normal seat belt mounts replacing the bolts, so they can be left in place.




                                Before any of my cars hit the track it's roll cages, seats and 6 point harnesses.

                                Cheers
                                Gary
                                Golf Mk7.5 R, Volvo S60 Polestar, Skyline R32GTST

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