Intercooler options

[noone]

Replacing the SMIC with another SMIC does not make much sense here as the cost of the unit is largely freight. You'd save yourself probably a hundred dollars and not get the same cooling results.

Would the Seat one be cheaper here being OEM?

[Buller_Scott]

the funny thing is, whilst it has been proven that there is definitely an advantage to having a fmic, has anyone here actually uprated the smic and posted dyno results?

the bottom line is, if an uprated smic could be so well engineered that intake temps were virtually the same as ambient, wouldnt the smic be the better option..... (cheaper, less lag, less chance of a write-off with minor own-fault booboos etc)? not to mention...... NO PRESSURE DROP to the radiator....

but no one has dynoed an uprated smic, as far as im aware- its been nothing but conjecture conjecture conjecture.... ''well the smic is in a bad spot, so even an uprated unit wouldnt be effective in my speculative opinion''......... ''oh, really??? well then. good to see you have hard evidence''.

it is curious that whilst everyone seems to be saying that an uprated smic wouldnt be effective, there are more than a couple of guys on the club who would call you a fag if you had a fmic for a turbo that was anything smaller than two sizes up from stock (e.g. going from vnt15 to pd130, to pd150 etc etc).

p.s. not knocking anyone with a fmic- the fag comment was simply something i observed in the club's performance enhancement forum

[noone]

I don't know much about cars as a whole, but my assumption is that a average radiator and a great one have 1 key difference: Size.

If you don't change the physical size of it much, why would it perform differently?

Obviously there are better designs / manufacturing methods, but as far as I'm aware, if you want more cooling, you need a bigger cooler.

If i could get an upgrade for some hundreds, I'd be interested. Over 1k, is outa my budget.

[shaneth]

Buller for forges smic it reduces temps 6-9Dcel. For the Polo FMIC its almost 30Dcel at the peak. So for the extra 150 pound i think it is the differenc is well worth it. And that extra is also including all piping including the front crash bar.

On the point of the Bar yes forge have reinforced there one for piece of mind. APR ones are cut a fair bit from memory and so do the ones sharkie got in. The only one i know that isnt needed to be cut is the Seat Ibiza Cupra.

[Kiel_GTI]

i dont think anyone (me mostly) was pretending to be an expert on the SMIC upgrade issue, personally i was just applying some logic to the situation to hopefully be of some assistance to the person with the problem.

perhaps the reason there is no dyno evidence is because the logistics of uprating the SMIC have been investigated before and found to have been of marginal benefit, but again...assumptions on my part.

[Buller_Scott]

hey guys im sorry if it might seem like im trying to defend the smic or even place demands on those who prefer fmic over smic to explain their logic- i know that the language/ ideas i might have posted might be abit.... provocative, but i think that this is one area that is very interesting to discuss- i will be looking at well engineered smic myself (like to be different blah blah blah)

the theory is definitely sound- but for a stock car, for example, the smic does a... well, good job.

my line of thought is that if you can up the intercooler cooling volume, without doing too much else (increasing lag, reducing pressure to radiator, spending $$$$$$$ for custom piping or an expensive kit), and if you can do that without going overkill, then i'd think that that would be the optimal solution.

of course, you could bolt on a huge fmic like that from the 900hp audi wagon, onto your pog, and no doubt it would cool to close to ambient- but if an uprated smic can cool to a similar degree the charge air for a car with nothing more than a seat intake, filter, a remap, and part of the exhaust, i dont think it should be criticised or dismissed.

i will be looking at uprated smic- i have seen some of the 'data' that black forest, tyrolsport etc etc have put out, and it seems to be pretty good stuff- i'd be more than happy with it, especially being as its supposed to be plug n play.

a chip is a go-to, stage 1 mod. a stage 1 intercooler mod might be seen as simply upping the cooling capacity of the side mount to suit the increase in boost.

shaneth: guys on the club reckon that tyrolsport design their end tanks better than forge or allard. reckon that's a factor? (probably seems like a dumb question but i dont know).

sorry again for accidentally being a prat- not at all intending to insult forges product- ive met guys on here who are very happy with their front mounts.

[Whubbsie]

I thought the problem with the side mount was even on a stock tune a on hot day the heat soak kills it no? (I haven't tested it since I had my car tuned and hour after picking it up)

[shaneth]

Buller get one and try it. When you do you should do some ogging and comparisons of temps before and after. Personally i couldnt justify the price difference. ie. $750us + shipping for tyrol smic. Or forge FMIC, whats the going rate on that.
I knew a member on here gpkgti who got a upgraded smic put it on and then took it off again and got a fmic. Just some food for thought.

[RhysQ]

perhaps the reason there is no dyno evidence is because the logistics of uprating the SMIC have been investigated before and found to have been of marginal benefit, but again...assumptions on my part.

I'm no expert either, but have been around turbo get-up's for quite a while and have seen maaaaany different FMIC, SMIC, top mount and V-mount set-up's. My honest guess is no one has upgraded their Polo GTI SMIC because no one would waste their money on upgrading an SMIC in a space where not much of a bigger one can fit and air flow to this place is nothing more than average without having serious custom direct cold air piping which IMO looks poo, when for most probably less money you can get an FMIC (as there are almost no aftermarket SMIC's available for the GTI's as far as I know - meaning custom is the only option). Why do I think an FMIC is superior in a Polo GTI? Because of the larger surface area, more flow rows and most probably larger (in diameter) piping to allow for faster air flow of cooler air. Yes the SMIC has shorter piping compared to an FMIC, but certainly not short enough to the inlet to make a notable difference in intake temps..... not anything like a top mount cooler anyway.

If an uprated SMIC was superior, why would sooooo many turbo tuners opt for FMIC's? This is the first question that popped into my head when this issue arose. You can say for the looks, but the serious tuners are punching for big numbers, not worried about how 'fully sick uleh' their car looks.

With WRX's, GTI-R's, 3 MPS's etc, I think it is ridiculous to change from a top mount to a front mount because of the significantly shorter piping from the top of the engine. In these situations an uprated top mount is the only way to go IMO, but top mounts have much shorter piping than a side mount cooler like that in the Polo GTI.

As I said I'm no expert on the matter either and have no VW evidence to provide, but common turbo and intercooler knowledge prevails in this case.

All this being said, I'd be more than happy for someone to give an uprated SMIC a go and get some results for comparisons.

Scott, please don't take any of this as having a dig at you.

Cheers,
Rhys

[Grant]

The quality of air flow is another reason why the FMIC > SMIC. There's no point having a bigger/better side mount if you can't get enough cold air to it.

[decat]

I thought the problem with the side mount was even on a stock tune a on hot day the heat soak kills it no? (I haven't tested it since I had my car tuned and hour after picking it up)

I can confirm this, having a SMIC on a chipped diesel.
after 4 or 5 runs (max rev pedal to the metal) the car is loosing power
Also tried to optimize the airflow (ibiza FR windtunnel, drilled holes in mudflap + adjusted the plastic part before the smic)

[Buller_Scott]

no digging recieved here, rhys

i think shaneth is right- if/ when i can confirm that a tyrolsport or a eurojet can fit a polo, i'm going that way- it'd be interesting to share data with you guys, especially seeing as i've learned a uckf pile from you guys and continue to do so....

cheers