Performance

[FL00DY]

just waiting round to c when admin steps in on this one lol

Well so am I, but I don't see a problem with R1 Crasher asking a straight forward Q and me telling him that GIAC is cheaper. But I know the admin warlords won't like it.

[Timbo]

Perhaps someone could explain the differences in ECU upgrade prices in AU compared to the U.K. where generally things are more expensive than here.
Ie,At the moment Awesome Gti are doing APR Stage 1 chip tunes for 375.00 UK pounds at current exchange rates thats $800Au,yet here its $1750. Why more than double?
Surely the cost to the distibutor from APR would be the same the world over.I realise that Australia is a smaller market than the UK. But to be more than 100% more smacks of taking advantage of that small market.

Asked and answered.

I am sure Guy will provide the specifics as they relate to APR in Australia, but I will respond based on my knowledge and experience in other technologies.

This is always a difficult issue for people to come to grips with, but it relates to the fixed costs of setting up a distributor/reseller model with adequate technical support, and recouping these fixed costs over a much smaller, yet geographically large market where the number of likely buyers (market share) is also significantly lower.

VAG cars have always been, until recently, a fairly minor player in the Australian car market. The performance versions -- Golf and Polo GTIs -- proportionately lower again. Compare this with the UK which -- while its population is between 3 and 4 times -- has a healthy population of GTIs of all VAG types -- as a proportion of all car sales, substantially higher than in Aust. This means VAG performance tuners in the UK have lower set-up risks and costs to address a larger market. Higher volumes, lower fixed costs per sale. And there's strong, healthy competition between the various tuners and their resellers, as AwesomeGTi's prices show.

In addition to the higher fixed start up costs and risks, the Aust market isn't large enough in these specialist areas to support multiple agents, so there's scope for monopoly pricing. But, there are substitutes such as GIAC, REVO etc, which at least keeps things fairly honest.

It is an unfortunate fact of life for us in Australia. Tyres, wheels...a whole range of stuff is substantially more expensive than in other markets.

If you think you can do better, by all means get into it and I'm sure there's many on here who'll support you. but that probably won't make you a millionaire

[Blitzen]

I'd like to see a reply to this too...Seems very lop sided if it is true...

[99gti]

Well so am I, but I don't see a problem with R1 Crasher asking a straight forward Q and me telling him that GIAC is cheaper. But I know the admin warlords won't like it.

Firstly we are not war lords but we are not child minders either. Educated discussion is encouraged but self re-assurance by degrading the quality of others research is just insulting other members. Flick through the rules if you are not sure on our stance on this - you should be well acquainted with them.

I think it is actually a good question and shows that someone has done their research.

My response would be that this question would be better answered by a distributor rather than asking a consumer. The problem with asking a consumer is that they are always going to think they made the right choice. Because of this, often the answer you receive will be biased based on their own investigation.

For those who do attempt to make a mockery of this thread be warned. If you don't have the intelligence to answer this question with an un-biased answer and you feel the need to inflate your ego by re-assuring yourself of your decision - then do not reply to this thread.

[R1 Crasher]

Thanks for the replies.
Just a couple of points.
Yes the market is much bigger in the UK by about 100%
Over a million new vehicle sales in Au and just over 2 million in the U.K. but with three times the population.
The general cost of living is much higher there than here,so surely the setup costs proportionally will be higher there.Wages,insurance,super, VAT, Rates you name it.
There are more dealers certainly (Just like there are more VW dealers),it doesnt make them cheaper though does it.

Out of curiosity why would the moderators want to close a genuine enquiry to get some info

[99gti]

Out of curiosity why would the moderators want to close a genuine enquiry to get some info

Unfortunetly at times these genuine questions often attract a negative response that degrades the quality and atmosphere on the forum.

Edit: R1 Crasher - you had a very valid question. My response was not directed towards yourself.

[R1 Crasher]

My post isn't about the pro's and cons of various chips.More about the difference in the pricing from market to market and the huge variations.It could just as easlily been another product.
I understand where the price differences for certain other products which might be higher due to size,weight etc to get here.But software isn't particularly expensive to ship.

[aprr32]

The UK supports VW,Audi Seat and Skoda, and up until recently, Australia had only VW(and only the tunable versions) which doesn't even seem like a drop in the ocean.(Like Holden calling themselves an exporter)As for the US well we don't get a look in,in terms of numbers of cars and population.We are very lucky we get the choice of upgrades that we currently have,and hopfully is will expand further.It's up to the individual to make an educational decision on whats best for their car and the way they want to drive it,

[GT3]

When you look at it from a consumer perspective, it's understandable that someone would ask "why am I paying so much more for software downloaded from the same server than consumers do in other markets?". My guess is that in Aust we just don't have the product depth and market to sustain lower prices (for now), so tuners have to make it somewhere, and ECU tuning is where they can sustain themselves. When volume and demand grows, they can then diversify their product range, and become less reliant on ECU tuning. ECU tuning is more lucrative for that reason, and while others may enter the market and do it slightly cheaper, they may be less inclined to offer or develop other products.

[Sharkie]

I heard in December that APR had only chipped about a 100 Polo GTI's to date.

I wonder how many have been sold since Jan 06? What would the percentage be ?

Not only for APR, but for all the chip manufacturers. My guess would be that the spread of APR v GIAC is about 65:35 based on this forum and REVO even less.

In all are we looking at a total of 200 odd chipped GTI's around Oz?

These market figures would probably be indicative of why the prices are so high compared to other markets.

As stated in a different tread it is our duty as consumers to constantly remind our suppliers that their prices may be too high ....

[gpk_gti]

r1 crasher---

I think the cost of chips is simple economics.The manufacturer charges a fee,now whether thats a per chip/flash cost,per chip+a yearly fee or just a outright fee . The importer has to add to the cost,advertising ,rent,wages etc etc .So after calculating all of this ,each chip would come out a net cost.

now taking into account the net cost from the limited customer base that Australia has as a pose to England or The USA,then at least getting a return and not losing money gets very hard.
As the larger countries sell sooooo many upgrades,im sure the manufacturers would offer a much more discounted cost as a pose to our small country.






and again ill reiterate 99gti's comments,keep it on topic and keep it nice.... the team have been informed of this thread and will be keeping a close eye on it.

[Flaps]

floody and flaps, I think you need to reassess the way you engage others on here. perhaps taking the time to think through how to express yourself in a less emotive and more neutral tone before responding, and without personalising and dismissing other ppls views, simply bc they're views aren't consistent with your biases.

lol what?

Personally I couldn't give a rats what people do with their cars because it's their car. I only use this forum because it's basically the only 1 in Australia that's worth looking at for information about the Polo GTI.

All this chip BS gets so old so quick.

[DubSteve]

Just to give people a rough idea what a Chipped NA mk3 Golf VR6 is like here compared to the states. Its something like $300 US compared to $800AUD Now thats using GIAC so I don't know about other chip tuning companies but thats a rough guestimate to what its worth kinda thing.

[gpk_gti]

Polo forum Contributors,

ive been asked by ADMIN to clean this thread up and to close it.Seems that certain people in this forum cannot have a adult like conversation about chips and this always happens ,hense the EXEC team always jumping in early or editing/deleting the thread.
Everyone knows the rules,the exec team are not here to babysit and we are certainly not here to constantly keep a eye on you guys.


VWW exec team.