Vwthunders build thread (finally)

[Blue9N3]

Just out of curiosity, how did you pipe up the return from the PWR intercooler and did it make a difference?


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[geoff_gti]

Rewind about a week ago and water/meth injection wasn't even on the radar.

Thanks guys, more things to spend cash on.

How often do you need to top of up the tank?

haha! Are you bringing the Pogo to DOVW this weekend?

[Eddy]

Hoyhoy.

You also have to watch that ya don't make the intercooler into a interwarmer, this can happen with any pre intercooler injection.

[sambb]

Those temp drops you saw with each additional water/meth injection point added are pretty significant. It makes sense that each time you add an upstream injection point that your downstream ones might have to be resized. Yeah I suppose you would have to drop your post intercooler nozzle size when you added pre intercooler injection because your inlet air temps would be lower than before so theoretically less inclined to cause full evaporation of the mix and also the air coming out of the intercooler would already be loaded with water molecules and less inclined to absorb more before the throttle body. Or maybe you could inject water only pre intercooler as temps are highest there, but meth only in the post intercooler section (since the meth evaporates at lower temperatures making it less likely to get unevaporated droplets wetting the throttle body electronics) - different mediums at different points.
Pre-compressor injections an interesting one eh? Maybe on the track compressor damage would be an issue because you'd be on full boost and injecting a large percentage of the time, but on the street not so much as it would only be there time to time as you give the car a squirt every now and then. dunno. Your setup sounds awesome though.

[Eddy]

Rewind about a week ago and water/meth injection wasn't even on the radar.

Thanks guys, more things to spend cash on.

How often do you need to top of up the tank?

Hoyhoy.

I was told as a guide that the system should use 15% water to fuel.
My figures differ to this.

[h100vw]

Rewind about a week ago and water/meth injection wasn't even on the radar.

Thanks guys, more things to spend cash on.

How often do you need to top of up the tank?

I have a gallon tank in my S3. It'll do that in less than 30 minutes around Lakeside. It will depend on how much you inject and what boost you have it start at. Mine comes on just below 10PSI, it is triggered by IDC but this is generally 10PSI ish.

It's entirely possible to have it armed and not trigger it.

That's pure water.

Gavin

[Eddy]

That pre turbo set up looks awesome. I'd been doing a lot of reading on pre turbo water injection. It seems like a really good (theoretically atleast) system because it causes intake cooling that also, due to its location prior to the turbo, allows the turbo to breath deeper - sort of like a pre turbo intercooler with zero flow loss. That might be a really good marriage for the K03 - to be able to spool/boost fast as per normal but then be given extended efficiency when it would otherwise have been getting wheezy. You could then run stiffer wastegate springs and hang onto peak boost numbers for longer.
I hadn't liked the look of much of the injection hardware for TIP's. Alot of the nozzle mounts I'd seen were just bung fittings into the sidewall of the TIP, but this set up looks awesome. I guess the nozzle feed hose then exits the TIP further upstream through a neat little grommet.
Eddy have you ever experienced any sort of water/meth condensation inside the intercooler with pre-intercooler injection or do you reckon thats a bit of a myth/or symptom of poorly setup systems.

Hoyhoy.

I to like the look of the pre turbo injection, but still worry about the turbo blades, which don't like the water hitting them.
As to having condensation inside the intercooler, I can't say for sure, I did set up a tap in the pre intercooler pipe to check for this & did get some fluid in the tap trap, but I think that the tap off shute is catching that fluid so I'm not too concerned @ present mainly because that fluid has a long way to get up to the donk, now ya must remember that I only use this system on the track & switch it off on the cool down lap.
I'm more worried about the 100cc post intercooler nozzle getting fluid to the TB. which I might reduce to 60cc just to feel better about it.
Originally on the track I was getting intake temps 50%-faren. above ambient, then with the post intercooler & the direct port set up this reduced to about 25-30% above, then with the pre intercooler 60cc nozzle the temp went down to 15-18% above.
Folks I also have to say that the Little Blue Girl doesn't get driven too much, she was in pieces as soon as I got home from the last track day in early Oct. playing with something new concerning bump steer, which could be interesting.

[rgvlee]

Rewind about a week ago and water/meth injection wasn't even on the radar.

Thanks guys, more things to spend cash on.

How often do you need to top of up the tank?

[sambb]

That pre turbo set up looks awesome. I'd been doing a lot of reading on pre turbo water injection. It seems like a really good (theoretically atleast) system because it causes intake cooling that also, due to its location prior to the turbo, allows the turbo to breath deeper - sort of like a pre turbo intercooler with zero flow loss. That might be a really good marriage for the K03 - to be able to spool/boost fast as per normal but then be given extended efficiency when it would otherwise have been getting wheezy. You could then run stiffer wastegate springs and hang onto peak boost numbers for longer.
I hadn't liked the look of much of the injection hardware for TIP's. Alot of the nozzle mounts I'd seen were just bung fittings into the sidewall of the TIP, but this set up looks awesome. I guess the nozzle feed hose then exits the TIP further upstream through a neat little grommet.
Eddy have you ever experienced any sort of water/meth condensation inside the intercooler with pre-intercooler injection or do you reckon thats a bit of a myth/or symptom of poorly setup systems.

[Eddy]

Hoyhoy.

I have a post & pre intercooler nozzle.
Plus direct port nozzles.

[vwthunder]

Ok. so if you did run pre throttle body injection it sounds like you'd have to guarantee that all the droplets are evaporated before the throttle body - I guess the short run from the stock SMIC to the throttle body wouldn't be enough for that. Is there such a thing as pre-intercooler injection? The temps would be higher and the pipe runs longer and flatter so there'd be more likelihood of getting all the droplets evaporated. Then the intercooler could do its thing a little easier and the IAT sensor would see the change that the water injection made and adjust mixtures/timing for the better.

I dont know about pre cooler spraying.
Maybe by the time the air reaches the throttle body it has already cooled off. Seems to be pretty simple just about everyone does a post throttle body (thats why they make all the adapter plates) and post intercooler.

You could always try this, looks interesting BigUPPER K03 : USRT, Usually Sideways Rally Team

URST asked me to buy one but i declined

[sambb]

Ok. so if you did run pre throttle body injection it sounds like you'd have to guarantee that all the droplets are evaporated before the throttle body - I guess the short run from the stock SMIC to the throttle body wouldn't be enough for that. Is there such a thing as pre-intercooler injection? The temps would be higher and the pipe runs longer and flatter so there'd be more likelihood of getting all the droplets evaporated. Then the intercooler could do its thing a little easier and the IAT sensor would see the change that the water injection made and adjust mixtures/timing for the better.

[h100vw]

You'd have to be able to run much more advance with the pre throttle body nozzle wouldn't you? With post throttle body nozzles the inlet air temp sensor won't even see the temperature drop in the manifold will it? Anyone know why they they don't recommend pre throttle body water injection for drive by wire systems. Whats the potential drama?

There's a chance the water will enter the electronics in the TB.

Gavin

[sambb]

You'd have to be able to run much more advance with the pre throttle body nozzle wouldn't you? With post throttle body nozzles the inlet air temp sensor won't even see the temperature drop in the manifold will it? Anyone know why they they don't recommend pre throttle body water injection for drive by wire systems. Whats the potential drama?

[vwthunder]

Dont have a exact pic, but here you go VW/TT 1.8T & 2.0l 8v Dual Nozzle Mount Package VW/TT 1.8T & 2.0l 8v Dual Nozzle Mount Package [SPDPACK] - $110.00 : USRT, Usually Sideways Rally Team

Water consumption, well it uses quite a bit at the moment, depends what nozzle size your using, guess i am lucky i have a big tank.

I have quite a few nozzles here, i should check which one i put in