Polo GTi 6R DSG Shudder - VW To Diagnose... What should I expect?

[CraigR]

So I have the fiances Polo GTi booked in at Northshore VW on Wednesday for a DSG checkup. For some reason, the car will hardly use first gear, and it feels as though it changes to 2nd too quickly causing the shudder and the revs are not high enough to warrant the use of 2nd gear.

As of recent times, when taking off at slow speed (already in 2nd gear) upon acceleration, the car will shudder quite violently for around 2-3 seconds, whereas before, it was a quick shudder and off it went.

The shudder does not occur in Sport or Manual mode, only in "D".

So what should I be expecting from VW? The car is a 2010 with 95,000kms. I have heard of these "goodwill" repairs. Is this something I should be asking for if they try to sting me for 7k for a new box?

TIA


UPDATE (AS PER POST #19)

Finally heard back from Northshore VW, and to my surprise, they are going to help me out.

They have offered to cover 100% parts and 20% labour, bringing the total out of pocket expense to $850, which is about 1/3 of the original quote of 2.5-2.6k. Very happy with that, considering the car is 2-3 years out of warranty with almost 100k on the clock.

[blower]

Definitely a worn clutch pack - happens all too often on the 7 speed dry clutch DSG.

Your described symptoms are exactly how these start to fail, with the shuddering gradually getting worse as you accelerate from a low rpm in 2nd gear.

There have been many revisions of the clutch pack over the years, the latest ones are supposed to have fixed the issue but the jury is still out on that one.

VW should identify this quite quickly (so long as it shudders on the test drive - the shuddering tends to happen far more after the box has warmed up, and/or when the weather is hot as this exacerbates the issue).

The should just say a new clutch pack is needed - which is considerably less than a new box, but I guess it will be around £1000 / $1500 AUD with labour costs.

[CraigR]

Thanks for the reply - That's exactly it, first 30 mins of driving is fine, but once warmed up... well I just want to burn the car. I was initially wondering if an "adaptation" would help but I think you are right about the clutch pack being at fault.

If its only $1500 to fix it, take my bloody money! Do they warrant this repair with it being a clutch?

[LunchboxVRS]

There where defiantly issues with theses clutches from the get go. Being that you have done 95k I doubt they will do a "good will"
My my12.5 gti did the same thing. It started with about 7k on the clock. Every time I took it in the "couldn't repeat the fault" I had logged the problem several times at the same dealer but no luck. It had just gone over 3 years and was getting worse. Car had only done 40k. This time they said defiantly the clutch pack needs replacing and then decided to bring up my APR tune. " which was put in well after the problem started. I was able to get it under the extended warranty. As it was non VW. If I had to pay myself it would have been close to $3k.

[CraigR]

I actually knew about the troubled 7 speed DSG before buying the car, but she insisted on the DSG over a manual.

Hopes are definitely low/non existent about the good will repair, I've never been that lucky. If this is such a known fault, they should be at least be repairing them for a reduced price. There'd be thousands out there with the same issue eventually.

[peter_pianto]

Isn't there 5 year warranty on the dsg?

[CraigR]

Yeah, they increased the DSG warranty from 3 years to 5 as there were so many issues. Of course, it's only just started doing it now. Car was sold on 30/11/2010 so unfortunately that warranty expired over a year ago.

[VW Convert]

Yeah, they increased the DSG warranty from 3 years to 5 as there were so many issues. Of course, it's only just started doing it now. Car was sold on 30/11/2010 so unfortunately that warranty expired over a year ago.

You may get some sort of "goodwill" although 95,000 Km is getting up a little. You need to get the dealer to diagnose the cause and assuming it is the clutch packs then make the point (in a calm and rational manner) that it is a known issue, that numerous clutch packs have been replaced both under warranty and under "goodwill" (which is really only VWA doing what they know they have to do under the Trade Practices Act) and would the dealer please submit a goodwill claim to VWA.

Old saying, you don't get if you don't ask.

Cheers

George

[CraigR]

I will definitely ask, its worth a shot - but I have to expect to cough up for the repair. Anything better than that is a bonus.

I did read somewhere that parts have to last a reasonable amount of time/kms. Is it reasonable for a dual clutch to last only 95,00kms/6 years? Possibly, but it's debatable. My manual clutch on the Golf R is still going strong on stage 2+ with 118k kms. It is a clutch at the end of the day, and I'm surprised they warrant it at all, kind of like tyres...

It goes in Northshore VW tomorrow, so time will tell!

[LunchboxVRS]

I will definitely ask, its worth a shot - but I have to expect to cough up for the repair. Anything better than that is a bonus.

I did read somewhere that parts have to last a reasonable amount of time/kms. Is it reasonable for a dual clutch to last only 95,00kms/6 years? Possibly, but it's debatable. My manual clutch on the Golf R is still going strong on stage 2+ with 118k kms. It is a clutch at the end of the day, and I'm surprised they warrant it at all, kind of like tyres...

It goes in Northshore VW tomorrow, so time will tell!

Completely different systems and use. The manual Is controlled by you and if it fails due to a fault the can tell when it's apart. Same as if it's caused by you. There will be tell tail signs. As long as your not riding it or dropping to often it should last a while. The DSG clutch packs are still more like auto clutch packs. They slip as there engaged for a auto like takeoff which creates more heat therefore more where. When you creep at the lights or intersection whatever the case may be it's creating more wear as they won't fully lock until it's got some speed up.
If you only move when your going to keep moving they should last awhile but I'm guessing as is the norm with wife's they don't listen and creep everwhere.

[CraigR]

Haha! I made sure she knew that creeping with a DSG is bad. Her travel to and from work is against rush hour traffic, but there is no telling what the previous owner did. Whenever I've been in the car with her I have't noticed her do it, but half an hour or so into the trip, it will start to shudder in 2nd gear at low revs.

[LunchboxVRS]

There was a batch of early models of which yours may fall into this category that had delaminating clutches.
As it gets worse You may notice it happen in 4th if you slow then take of agin while it's in 4th. Mine towards the end would do it from a stand still in reverse taking off as well.

[CraigR]

Hmm, well the clutch isn't displaying those symptoms as of yet. Seeing as its not under warranty, I'm sure they'll find the cause as they will get money out of it. Dropped the car off this morning and I asked them to quote and necessary repairs, hopefully they'll do the right thing and not sting me for everything. Time will tell...

[KiwiME]

Not sure if it's relevant but I test-drove a new Polo GTI at the dealer 2 weeks ago, 26 km on it, and it had a slight shudder at low speeds (~10 kph, cold engine) that my late-2014 polo 1.2 81 kW DSG does not exhibit, but not enough to concern me. Once on the move upshifts felt much sharper in the GTI and I expect the shudder is a result of a minor drivetrain resonance at low RPM.

[CraigR]

I find they can be a bit "clunky" when the clutch is engaging and disengaging, and sometimes a little rattly on rough roads between gear changes, but this issue is foot down in second gear and it shudders violently, something that you definitely notice. Good concept, they just haven't nailed it.