Lots of dash lights after checking horn fuse

[Chruzz]

There was no collision. Water pump was leaking. Problem all started when battery got low, key fob battery was replaced and was looking at fuses for airbag before replacing clock spring.


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[DV52]

I did clear the errors (twice) and was only doing what I was requested by uploading the whole log file. I am sorry to have confused the issue further. I would have distilled the log file but thought I might cut out important info.


There was no collision. Water pump was leaking. Problem all started when battery got low, key fob battery was replaced and was looking at fuses for airbag before replacing clock spring.

@Chruzz: OK, I meant NO criticism. I agree - generally more information is certainly better than less!!

Given your confirmation that this car wasn't involved in a collision - I researched the literature and I found reference to the B13BCF2 - Multiple collision brake No function error in a VAG Technical Service Bulletin (TSB 69-19-43).

Now, the TSB was released by Audi - but it relates to ALL vehicles that have a MQB platform build. However, whilst this Polo is not quite the same, the 6C0 chassis on this car does share many Volkswagen Group MQB A0 platform features. So, the TSB is also likely to apply to this car! It might be prudent to check this with a dealer

Anyhow - these are the words in the TSB (I've highlighted relevant bits):

Model - ALL

YEAR - 2015 to 2020

Condition

Customer states:

• The airbag warning light is illuminated in the instrument cluster.

Workshop findings:

The following DTC is stored in the airbag control module (J234):

• DTC B13BCF2 (Multiple collision brake No function) and can be active/static or passive/sporadic.

Technical Background

The “Multiple collision brake” is controlled by the ABS control module, J104, (address word 0003) and part of the ABS/ESC functionality.

If the ABS control module detects an ABS/ESC relevant error, the “Multiple collision brake” is deactivated. In addition, the ESC and airbag warning lights are turned on in the instrument cluster and DTC B13BCF2 is stored in the airbag control module.

If the brake system relevant error is passive/sporadic and not detected again, the ESC warning light is turned off after the next ignition cycle. Any DTCs that were stored in the ABS control module will be erased after 40 ignition cycles if not detected again.

In contrast, the airbag warning light will stay on permanently until the DTC B13BCF2 in the airbag control module is erased manually. The “Multiple collision brake” will stay deactivated as long as DTC B13BCF2 is stored in the airbag control module.

Service

1. Connect vehicle to ODIS Service and perform a scan with GFF. Follow GFF for any DTCs that could have caused a deactivation of ABS/ESC functionality. If these DTCs are present, follow GFF to determine and eliminate the root cause. Once the root cause has been eliminated, delete DTC B13BCF2 in the airbag control module.

2. If no DTCs were present that could explain the deactivation of ABS/ESC functionality, erase the DTC B13BCF2 in the airbag control module.

3. Release the vehicle to the customer without attempting any additional repairs.

4. If the customer experiences this concern again, a vehicle scan with GFF should be performed immediately to determine the root cause.

Note:

Replacing the airbag control module does not solve this issue. Claims for replaced parts will be subject to review

"GFF" in the TSB means Guided Fault Finding - which are a set of detailed steps that VAG make available to their technicians (generally GFFs are not available outside dealerships)

Again, I suggest that you make a fresh SCAN with ignition-ON and Engine OFF - my experience is that for a simple SCAN, it's best NOT to ask the Gateway module to function both in diagnostic mode AND as the CAN bus coordinator in engine running mode (when the Gateway module needs to manage lots more CAN messages )

For what it's worth and IMO of course, what's needed here given the information in the TSB is for your SCAN to show the error messages that are recorded in fault memory in the Brake module. As suggested in the TSB, your focus should then be to "eliminate the root cause" of the Brake module faults

After ALL faults are cleared in the Brake module - you should then be able to manually clear the Airbag module error (again, as suggested in the TSB)

Don

PS: you can find the TSB HERE and there's another copy for the NAR market HERE

[Chruzz]

Thanks Don. Happy to receive any criticism. Just trying to figure it out and appreciate the help given. Thank you for your efforts.


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[MIG]

how the F#ck did you manage to "disconnect the Brake Control Module cable" with the Vehicle speed= 255 km/h?


Don

The speed data in the freeze frame is reported from the ABS unit, 255km is the value reported when there is no signal.

The airbag fault is due to the ABS unit being tied into the auto brake feature after a airbag deployment.

Both faults are consistent with a loss of signal from the ABS unit.

If I was working on this, I would be testing powers, grounds and the CAN signals at the ABS units connector.




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[Chruzz]

OBD11 can't scan the Brake Control Module. OBD11 says "Error - Control Unit not responding. Check ignition and try again"

So testing for power at the BCM would be a good place to start I guess.

Would I be better off with VW service department or independent auto electrician?


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[DV52]

The speed data in the freeze frame is reported from the ABS unit, 255km is the value reported when there is no signal.

@MIG: Hi.

Yes indeed, you are 101% correct - but I very much suspect (hope really) that neither was the car traveling @ 255 KM/h when the module recorded the ABS signal loss!!

I kind-of knew that the vehicle speed was wrong when I raised the matter because the freeze-frame data also says that when the car was supposedly traveling at 255 km/h, the engine speed was "803.50 1/min" (I think the units are meant to be revs/min). Of course this is near engine idle conditions!!

As I know that you are aware from your programming work - 255 is a very special number because it is the the maximum decimal value that can fit into a hexadecimal pair! My hunch is that at the same time that the Airbag module lost the ABS signal, the signal for vehicle speed was also lost (probably because the vehicle speed signal comes via the same ABS module - via wheel rotation sensors ). I suspect that in this circumstance, the default value that is used in the vehicle-speed memory location for the Freeze frame data is hexFF - so what was recorded in the SCAN was the base-10 equivalent for hexFF (being decimal 255)!

The airbag fault is due to the ABS unit being tied into the auto brake feature after a airbag deployment.

Both faults are consistent with a loss of signal from the ABS unit.

If I was working on this, I would be testing powers, grounds and the CAN signals at the ABS units connector. [

Yes again - good opening suggestion!! But if indeed this is a genuine physical fault (yet to be poven)- the problem could also be CAN high/low wires on the Brake module

Fact is without the Brake module reporting in the SCAN - both of our suggestions are mere conjecture!

@Chruzz: I assume that you had no success with my ignition-ON, engine OFF suggestion. Maybe try a hard module reset by removing the negative battery lead for a while - then reconnecting!! If this also fails -can you get access to a VCDS cable?

Don

PS: @Cruzz - are you aware that you can get the wiring diagrams for this car from ERWIN. This document will tell you the pin-out for the Brake module (including power-supply, earth and CAN high/low wires and much more!). You will need to register but if you buy a one-hour subscription, you should be able to down-load ALL of the documents relevant to this car. Have you VIN ready and DON'T ask any on-line questions - your objective within the one-hour session is to down-load as many repair documents as possible (you can search through the material after the repair documents are resident on your computer). The wiring diagram is called "Basic Equipment" - I have no idea why!!

[Chruzz]

Don, no luck with trying hard resetting by removing negative battery lead.

I guess trying both the TSB suggestions on the software side and if that doesn't work start testing all the wires running to the Battery Control Module.

I'm planning on taking it to VA Garage and book it in with them to see if they can fix it.

OBDeleven vehicle history log
Date: 2023-06-24 16:59:43


VIN: WVWZZZ6RZHU016504
Car:
Year: 2017
Body type: D5 Hatchback
Engine: CJZC kW ( hp) l
Mileage: 184810 km


---------------------------------------------------------------
Full scan
Control Units: 8
Fault count: 17
Control Units:
17 Dashboard
System description: KOMBI
Software number: 6C0920730H
Software version: 2310
Hardware number: 6C0920730H
Hardware version: 103

Faults:
U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 2
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:25



44 Steering Assistance
System description: EPS_TRW_ALow
Software number: 6C2909144AG
Software version: 3232
Hardware number: 6C2909144D
Hardware version: 323

Faults:
U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Engine speed - 0 1/min
Vehicle speed - 50.00 km/h
System status - Driving mode
Terminal 15 status - Terminal 15 on
Voltage terminal 30 - 12.08 V
Power steering current consumption - 1.34 A
max.value - 30.44 A
End stage temperature - 48 °C
Steering assistance, engine output - 100.00 %
Engine angle - 88 °
Electric motor speed - 0 1/min
Steering assistance, target engine torque - -0.54 Nm
Steering torque - 0.04 Nm
Status - OK
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:27

U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Engine speed - 0 1/min
Vehicle speed - 50.00 km/h
System status - Driving mode
Terminal 15 status - Terminal 15 on
Voltage terminal 30 - 12.08 V
Power steering current consumption - 1.34 A
max.value - 30.44 A
End stage temperature - 48 °C
Steering assistance, engine output - 100.00 %
Engine angle - 88 °
Electric motor speed - 0 1/min
Steering assistance, target engine torque - -0.54 Nm
Steering torque - 0.04 Nm
Status - OK
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:27

U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Engine speed - 0 1/min
Vehicle speed - 50.00 km/h
System status - Driving mode
Terminal 15 status - Terminal 15 on
Voltage terminal 30 - 12.08 V
Power steering current consumption - 1.34 A
max.value - 30.44 A
End stage temperature - 48 °C
Steering assistance, engine output - 100.00 %
Engine angle - 88 °
Electric motor speed - 0 1/min
Steering assistance, target engine torque - -0.54 Nm
Steering torque - 0.04 Nm
Status - OK
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:27

U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Engine speed - 0 1/min
Vehicle speed - 50.00 km/h
System status - Driving mode
Terminal 15 status - Terminal 15 on
Voltage terminal 30 - 12.08 V
Power steering current consumption - 1.34 A
max.value - 30.44 A
End stage temperature - 48 °C
Steering assistance, engine output - 100.00 %
Engine angle - 88 °
Electric motor speed - 0 1/min
Steering assistance, target engine torque - -0.54 Nm
Steering torque - 0.04 Nm
Status - OK
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:27

U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Engine speed - 0 1/min
Vehicle speed - 50.00 km/h
System status - Driving mode
Terminal 15 status - Terminal 15 on
Voltage terminal 30 - 12.08 V
Power steering current consumption - 1.34 A
max.value - 30.44 A
End stage temperature - 48 °C
Steering assistance, engine output - 100.00 %
Engine angle - 88 °
Electric motor speed - 0 1/min
Steering assistance, target engine torque - -0.54 Nm
Steering torque - 0.04 Nm
Status - OK
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:27

U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175

U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Engine speed - 0 1/min
Vehicle speed - 50.00 km/h
System status - Driving mode
Terminal 15 status - Terminal 15 on
Voltage terminal 30 - 12.05 V
Power steering current consumption - 1.35 A
max.value - 30.44 A
End stage temperature - 48 °C
Steering assistance, engine output - 100.00 %
Engine angle - 88 °
Electric motor speed - 0 1/min
Steering assistance, target engine torque - -0.54 Nm
Steering torque - 0.04 Nm
Status - OK
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:32



08 Air Conditioning
System description: AC Manuell
Software number: 6C0820045D
Software version: 0203
Hardware number: 6C0820045D
Hardware version: H03

Faults:
U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:24



15 Airbag
System description: VW20Airbag00C
Software number: 6C0959655K
Software version: 0380
Hardware number: 6C0959655K
Hardware version: 002

Faults:
B13BCF2 - Multiple collision brake
No function
static
Priority - 2
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 255
km-Mileage - 184810 km
date - 2023-05-31 10:18:03

U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:26

U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:25



5F Multimedia
System description: MU-S--ER
Software number: 3Q0035824B
Software version: 0359
Hardware number: 3Q0035824B
Hardware version: H30

Faults:
U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Dynamic environmental data - 028678186001
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:32

U111100 - Function limitation due to missing message
static
Priority - 6
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Dynamic environmental data - 028678184402
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:30



01 Engine
System description: R4 1.2l TFS
Software number: 04E906027BB
Software version: 9085
Hardware number: 04E907309AF
Hardware version: H23

Faults:
U012100 - Lost Communication With
Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) Control Module
static
Priority - 2
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 255
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Engine speed - 0.00 1/min
Normed load value - 0.0 %
Vehicle speed - 255 km/h
Coolant temperature - 43 °C
Intake air temperature - 26 °C
Ambient air pressure - 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30 - 11.991 V
Dynamic environmental data - 209628105F0014CB00
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:22



19 Gateway
System description: GW MQB A0
Software number: 6C0909901A
Software version: 0094
Hardware number: 6C0937087
Hardware version: H10

Faults:
U012100 - Lost Communication With
Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) Control Module
static
Priority - 2
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Supply voltage, terminal 30 - 12.0 V
Terminal 15 - On
Unknown ambient data -
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:26



09 Central Electrics
System description: BCM PQ26 Me4R
Software number: 6C0937087D
Software version: 0094
Hardware number: 6C0937087
Hardware version: H10

Faults:
U112100 - Databus missing message
static
Priority - 4
Malfunction frequency counter - 1
Unlearning counter - 175
km-Mileage - 184810 km
Unknown ambient data - 050100788D
Terminal 15 status - On
Terminal 50 status - Off
Voltage - 12.0 V
Outside air temperature - 20.5 °C
Status Bremslichtschalter (HW) - Off
Status Bremslichtschalter (CAN) - Off
Off - operated
Parking light - not activated
Automatic high beam assist - not activated
Low beam - not activated
Parking light left - not activated
Parking light right - not activated
Stoerschutzzaehler - 0
date - 2023-06-22 00:09:24



---------------------------------------------------------------

[DV52]

@Chruzz: Bummer!!!.

There appears to be many very odd aspects in your SCAN - not the least of which is the complete absence of ANY report about the Brake module, itself.

I'm not sure if you are aware that the Gateway module in this car is the master module for the purpose of a SCAN - meaning that when you press the SCAN tab on the OBD11 software, it's the Gateway module that coordinates the challenge/response requests from the other modules (which populates the SCAN report).

I'm also not sure if you are aware of the "GIL". It's the Gateway Installation List - which is a table that tells the Gateway module which other modules are installed in the car. The GIL is first established when the car is built - but it can be modified later when modules are added/removed. The Gateway module uses this list to identify which modules to poll when asked to produce a SCAN report.

There are 3 x possibilities when a user asks the Gateway module to produce a SCAN report.
Either:

1. The identity of the module in the GIL aligns with the actual physical module that responds to requests, or
2. One, or more modules are registered in the GIL, but they are NOT responding, or not physically connected to the CAN network (likely because the modules are NOT installed in the car)
3. One, or more modules are actually physically connected to the CAN network, but they are missing from the GIL

In ALL instances above, the SCAN report will identify the module status:

• for 1 above, the SCAN will report the details shown in your SCAN reports
• for 2 above, the SCAN will report that the offending module has failed to respond
• for 3 above, the SCAN will report an error from the offending module(s) - being messages like " a module is requesting access - but not registered in GIL"

My reason for explaining the stuff above is to emphasis that by deliberate design - regardless of status of a module (meaning, regardless of whether the module is powered, or not), the module will/should be reported in the SCAN report. But the Brake module is missing from this car, which is mighty odd!!

Now, I assume that the offending Brake module is still operational - which makes me question whether the problem here is a power supply issue on the Brake module (no offense intended to @MIG suggestion). My hunch (wild guess really), is that initial signal loss fault as identified in the Airbag module has been subsequently exacerbated in some unknown manner by your earlier advice :

"I ...disconnected Brake Control Module cable and sprayed contact cleaner on the terminals".

It's not clear what were the conditions for the other modules on the CAN network when the Brake module cable was disconnected - but care should be exercised when disconnecting a central module such as the brake module. That said, please understand that my concerns about this matter are based on my ill informed understanding because there is much that is not known in this case!!

Please keep me (us) informed - this is an interesting situation and I suspect that it will be a fascinating learning exercise (for me, at least)

Don