Passat TFSI or 4 motion

[matto247]

Hey guys new to the forum and well jus turned 17 a couple of weeks ago and looking at a car now havnt decided yet but it's prty much golf/Jetta/passat

well I know like golf wud be the most fun passat wud be the most cruiser car and comfortable anyway bak to my question

is the 4 motion worth the extra 5-8g? I'm planning to remap the ecu with apr"s if I get the tfsi and I know that the 4motion uses the same engine as that off the r32s soo yeah is it worth it and any positives and negatives of the car in general?

Cheers

[h100vw]

Welcome to the forum.

I'd go the turbo, as you can get more performance from the software.

Gavin

[Swallowtail]

You're just 17 right? Please spend a couple of years learning how to drive properly before getting a high performance car - for the sake of other road users and your passengers. In Qld you wouldn't be able to buy a turbo car, and it's for good reasons. Stats on new. teenage drivers in fast cars are horrendous.

JMHO.

[Pana]

You're just 17 right? Please spend a couple of years learning how to drive properly before getting a high performance car - for the sake of other road users and your passengers. In Qld you wouldn't be able to buy a turbo car, and it's for good reasons. Stats on new. teenage drivers in fast cars are horrendous.

JMHO.

In what? Some old Corolla/VL-VN Commo/XF Falcon?

Personally, I reckon he'd be better off in a well engineered car like a Golf/Passat/Jetta rather than those older cars so if he (or mum and dad) can afford to get him something decent and new in the VW range, then I'm all for it.

- If he gets into trouble, he'll have more chance or surviving
- Grip levels are better and therefore the handling threshold is higher, therefore less likely to get into any issues.
- They're only 4 banger FWD/AWD cars - his bogan mates won't ask him to do burnouts when Wayne in his hektik VL with a dose pipe is more than happy to do them.

[Swallowtail]

Pana - no, and please don't put words into my mouth. I did not say anything about old cars. He obviously has the $ to buy a new car - which is fine, and safer than the cars you mention as you have commented. But a new driver in a 2.0 turbo VW? Cars capable of pulling sub 7 second 0-100 when modded like he is talking about? They are quick cars - much quicker than Wayne's sik VL..., and awd can give a sense of invincibility. And get an inexperienced driver into trouble and way past their skill level as quickly as it can help an experienced driver get out of trouble.

All I am saying is that there are plenty of new safe cars (including VWs) with get up and go that will be heaps of fun to learn how to drive in (and yes, I mean learn to drive - after a driver has got Ps) without buying a car with that amount of performance.

Again - JMHO...

[Golf Houso]

^^^ Completely agree, and its one of those cases where unless you compare it to something genuinely slow, you'll have no idea just how fast and capable these cars can be.

I went from a MK3 golf GL to a mint VR6 with a fresh motor (RE: 70,000km's) and have got myself into alot of trouble with it already, being only a year in and on my full license. Seriously mate, just get a diesel 103kw Passat and enjoy it!

[Yevvy]

completely agree with our moderators, especially on the awd part. 103tdi or 125tdi with some nice ooptions would be the best bet - still got enough punch, but not too fast "to get you into trouble".

[tryingavw]

Hey guys new to the forum and well jus turned 17 a couple of weeks ago and looking at a car now havnt decided yet but it's prty much golf/Jetta/passat

well I know like golf wud be the most fun passat wud be the most cruiser car and comfortable anyway bak to my question

is the 4 motion worth the extra 5-8g? I'm planning to remap the ecu with apr"s if I get the tfsi and I know that the 4motion uses the same engine as that off the r32s soo yeah is it worth it and any positives and negatives of the car in general?

Cheers

matt dont forget even if you get it cheaper the running costs of a passat/ golf etc will be quite high. So consider also the polo which is a great little fun car with good safety credentials. i bought one for my son 18 and he loves it even thuogh it only has a 1.4 engine. they also do a GTI

[Pana]

They are quick cars - much quicker than Wayne's sik VL..., and awd can give a sense of invincibility. And get an inexperienced driver into trouble and way past their skill level as quickly as it can help an experienced driver get out of trouble.

All I am saying is that there are plenty of new safe cars (including VWs) with get up and go that will be heaps of fun to learn how to drive in (and yes, I mean learn to drive - after a driver has got Ps) without buying a car with that amount of performance.

Again - JMHO...

A standard early model VN could get to a 100 in low 8's. A VL with just a little bit of work done to it will be quicker - as quick as a modded GTI if not faster. And anyway, if Perth is like NSW and Vic in terms of what cars p-platers drive, then a GTI and a turbo VL would be off limits anyway so it's irrelevant.

As for the other comments about how AWD is "bad" (invincibility) so if you had the choice of buying your child a car - you wouldn't get an AWD car because of what his/her perceived safety in the car would be? That's when your argument turns to blaming the car for killing rather than the driver.

Education is the key - send them to a defensive driving course so they can see the limits and what happens when you break them.

P.S. Just asking a question, not putting words anywhere.

[Golf Houso]

A standard early model VN could get to a 100 in low 8's. A VL with just a little bit of work done to it will be quicker - as quick as a modded GTI if not faster. And anyway, if Perth is like NSW and Vic in terms of what cars p-platers drive, then a GTI and a turbo VL would be off limits anyway so it's irrelevant.

As for the other comments about how AWD is "bad" (invincibility) so if you had the choice of buying your child a car - you wouldn't get an AWD car because of what his/her perceived safety in the car would be? That's when your argument turns to blaming the car for killing rather than the driver.

Education is the key - send them to a defensive driving course so they can see the limits and what happens when you break them.

P.S. Just asking a question, not putting words anywhere.

Nothing stops speeding and showboating in young drivers more than having to drive an absolute slug of a car.

[Swallowtail]

A standard early model VN could get to a 100 in low 8's. A VL with just a little bit of work done to it will be quicker - as quick as a modded GTI if not faster. And anyway, if Perth is like NSW and Vic in terms of what cars p-platers drive, then a GTI and a turbo VL would be off limits anyway so it's irrelevant.

As for the other comments about how AWD is "bad" (invincibility) so if you had the choice of buying your child a car - you wouldn't get an AWD car because of what his/her perceived safety in the car would be? That's when your argument turns to blaming the car for killing rather than the driver.

Education is the key - send them to a defensive driving course so they can see the limits and what happens when you break them.

P.S. Just asking a question, not putting words anywhere.

Many many reasons why I wouldn't let my kid loose in a VN or a VL. Standard or modded. Safety was never a primary concern in those days... and they are fast cars in a straight line with poor handling characteristics. But that is not my main point... my point is that young inexperienced drivers should not be driving fast cars. All for safe ones, yes, but fast ones - no. Fast safe ones - still no.

I never said awd is "bad". What I said was that AWD can give a false sense of security, as can any safety measure. To illustrate - a WRX with awd is a weapon. In more ways than one. The awd's system to handle the power and transmit it to the road is amazing, and can generate a familiarity similar to "I can always use full throttle cos this car grips so well". I've seen it happen. Young inexperienced driver thinks the car will always grip and go. Then it doesn't. In the one I saw, it let go rapidly as limits of traction on a wet road was exceeded, it speared off the road into a tree writing the car off and fortunately injuring no-one but a very wounded pride.

In a lower-powered vehicle, say an Impreza RS with awd, the awd is far more of safety feature than a performance feature, as the performance limits of the car make finding the limits of the awd much harder.

That's my meaning when saying that awd can create a feeling of invincibility. I didn't say (or mean) that awd is "bad". I love awd. It rocks.

Education is PART of the key. Whilst defensive driving courses MAY be good, there is some evidence that in some people all they do is again give a false sense of security - a "I've done a defensive driving course so I can get out a skid" whereas in reality they usually have no idea of what to do when a situation arises that they are unprepared for. Not knocking DDCs - they have their place, but they are not a global panacea.

My point, which I (and others who have posted here) see pretty clearly is that I think it is madness to let new drivers loose in high-performance cars. Whether those cars are new ones and thus safer to the driver is not the point I am making. IMHO the restrictions should be based on power to weight ratios, not power / turbo, etc. 200KW in a 3 ton truck is nothing, but in a 1200kg hatch . And power-producing modifications should be banned while on Ps.

As Branko states - when your car doesn't do much performance wise, hooning around loses its appeal.

And cars can still be fun without oodles of power - look at Maca in his TDI Jetta - immaculate car, nice rims, plates, looks fantastic, and great car. Got some go, but not enough to get into TOO much trouble. Hey some people will get into trouble in a 1L 1969 Mini - that was my first car and the girl I sold it to wrapped it around a lamp-post - but it's a hell of a lot harder to do so than in a 3.8L VN Commodore, or a 3.0T VL, or a Golf GTI... etc.

[Pana]

Nothing stops speeding and showboating in young drivers more than having to drive an absolute slug of a car.

how old are you golf houso, because it seems you've forgotten.

Nothing stops speeding and showboating in young drivers if you've got a bunch of mates egging you on to do something stupid and you don't have the brains to tell them to f*ck off. Whether it be oil, waiting until its wet, on dirt etc - you could have the biggest piece of sh*t on the road and you will try to do something with it. If you can't do a burnout, wind it up to 80km/h and pull the handbrake for a laugh - and wrap yourself around a tree/lamp post in the process.

I had a piece of crap VK Commo with a carby - my mates had similar cars - they couldn't pull the skin off rice pudding - but I'll tell you what, I and they almost killed ourselves several times doing stupid stunts "for a laugh" and my car was by no means quick (14sec 0-100km/h)

[Swallowtail]

how old are you golf houso, because it seems you've forgotten.

Nothing stops speeding and showboating in young drivers if you've got a bunch of mates egging you on to do something stupid and you don't have the brains to tell them to f*ck off. Whether it be oil, waiting until its wet, on dirt etc - you could have the biggest piece of sh*t on the road and you will try to do something with it. If you can't do a burnout, wind it up to 80km/h and pull the handbrake for a laugh - and wrap yourself around a tree/lamp post in the process.

I had a piece of crap VK Commo with a carby - my mates had similar cars - they couldn't pull the skin off rice pudding - but I'll tell you what, I and they almost killed ourselves several times doing stupid stunts "for a laugh" and my car was by no means quick (14sec 0-100km/h)

Correct - but it's a hell of a lot easier to achieve a lethal outcome doing the same thing in a car with twice the power.

[Pana]

I think you think I'm saying its ok for a P-plater to drive a turbo car - I'm not and with the new laws, he won't be able to anyway. Theres been about 4 different things spoken about and its come out this way.

However, and this is a big however, if it came down to having a P-plater driving either a late model GTI or some piece of sh*t old Corolla or Magna with rust and blowing oil smoke (two ends of the spectrum I know) - I'd rather the GTI (or my lungs would while following anyway)

[Swallowtail]

I think you think I'm saying its ok for a P-plater to drive a turbo car - I'm not and with the new laws, he won't be able to anyway. Theres been about 4 different things spoken about and its come out this way.

However, and this is a big however, if it came down to having a P-plater driving either a late model GTI or some piece of sh*t old Corolla or Magna with rust and blowing oil smoke (two ends of the spectrum I know) - I'd rather the GTI (or my lungs would while following anyway)

Yes, I will concede that point. Although I do feel your comparison is probably a little skewed - a GTI would rarely be the only choice of new car - I'd rather again they had a Golf 1.6 for less money.

The OP in this instance obviously has $ to buy a new car, so my point here was originally what sort of NEW car I felt the OP should be able to drive as a 17 yr old new driver.

All good fun... been some healthy debates on here today!