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There are some good answers here, and what I can add without breaking forum rules, is that the answer is generally dependant on what the company in question is selling. The legitimate answer to tuning any engine whether it be VW or Lamborghini is to custom tailor it on the dyno for the optimum torque for the ignition timing and air fuel ratio that it will support on the fuel it is being run on
Thats the whole point of the chips, they bring the overly conservative factory mappings back towards the ideal world figure of 14.7.
The chips lean the cars out to achieve significant performance / economy improvements at minimal risk.
The 1.8T engine has to be one of the most tuned engines in history (behind the 2.0T and the WRX)! All the major chips have been tweaked and retweaked to provide the max possible enhancement over the factory settings, while maintaining a very safe margin above those catastrophic words like pinging, detonation, blowby, and blown turbos.
Go for the chip - you will bring your 1.8T up to the performance level of a factory 2.0T no probs!
RIP! 2007 Passat 3.2 4Motion Black Sedan | 19"s | AVC-9000 | Audi A3 Sportback 2.0TFSIQ
Thats the whole point of the chips, they bring the overly conservative factory mappings back towards the ideal world figure of 14.7.
The chips lean the cars out to achieve significant performance / economy improvements at minimal risk.
The 1.8T engine has to be one of the most tuned engines in history (behind the 2.0T and the WRX)! All the major chips have been tweaked and retweaked to provide the max possible enhancement over the factory settings, while maintaining a very safe margin above those catastrophic words like pinging, detonation, blowby, and blown turbos.
Go for the chip - you will bring your 1.8T up to the performance level of a factory 2.0T no probs!
3Putt - as already stated on more than one occasion for modern turbo engines 14.7 is not ideal. Go and try it... been there done that... the most you want with a modern turbo is 12s or 13s. Tuners go pale and very quickly get off the throttle doing dyno runs if they see 14s.
I already commented that my tune took my mazda from 10:1 to 12/13:1, so I am fully aware of what "the point" is...
A chip or a flash (or is that what you mean by "chip"?), or whatever poison you choose, can both (dependent on the car, the technician and the device) get you similar results. With modern ECUs however a "tune" can be very hard to achieve anything with, as they are so locked down. It usually takes either a reflash or a piggyback chip to overcome the factory ECU's built-in parameters to any noticeable extent.
E.g for the Mazda 2.3T motor that I have come from I gained about 20% atw with a piggyback. Others got similar results from a flash. There is quite simply nothing to tune without either one of those paths being taken.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say with your post that hasn't already been said? Or am I missing something?
There are some good answers here, and what I can add without breaking forum rules, is that the answer is generally dependant on what the company in question is selling. The legitimate answer to tuning any engine whether it be VW or Lamborghini is to custom tailor it on the dyno for the optimum torque for the ignition timing and air fuel ratio that it will support on the fuel it is being run on
Spot on!! is this the real MD that used to write for Ben Ellis??
Back to topic: most tuners will tune for best performance WITH the current fuel that is in the car as it is a factor in the tuning process, but a rich tune=safer tune to compensate for lower RON fuel to prevent engine knocking.
3Putt - as already stated on more than one occasion for modern turbo engines 14.7 is not ideal. Go and try it... been there done that... the most you want with a modern turbo is 12s or 13s. Tuners go pale and very quickly get off the throttle doing dyno runs if they see 14s.
I already commented that my tune took my mazda from 10:1 to 12/13:1, so I am fully aware of what "the point" is...
A chip or a flash (or is that what you mean by "chip"?), or whatever poison you choose, can both (dependent on the car, the technician and the device) get you similar results. With modern ECUs however a "tune" can be very hard to achieve anything with, as they are so locked down. It usually takes either a reflash or a piggyback chip to overcome the factory ECU's built-in parameters to any noticeable extent.
E.g for the Mazda 2.3T motor that I have come from I gained about 20% atw with a piggyback. Others got similar results from a flash. There is quite simply nothing to tune without either one of those paths being taken.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say with your post that hasn't already been said? Or am I missing something?
you are not missing anything dude, u are just on a different level.
Infact, we did run a Motec in our GTR a few years back and we were able to squeezd out to a near perfect 14 for almost every 100 revs on C10. But as soon an we ran Optimax it was history......all comes down to hareware and tuner.
A chip or a flash (or is that what you mean by "chip"?), or whatever poison you choose, can both (dependent on the car, the technician and the device) get you similar results. With modern ECUs however a "tune" can be very hard to achieve anything with, as they are so locked down. It usually takes either a reflash or a piggyback chip to overcome the factory ECU's built-in parameters to any noticeable extent.
?
swallowtail, i have been told by my bmw specialist he has used tuning boxes with really good results. (mainly for turbo diesels eg x5 3.od engine) which can be plugged in and unplugged at will ( ie when you send the car back for service) and give performance and economy improvements - or are these inferior to the proper flash?
i gather from the above comments you would be sceptical?
swallowtail, i have been told by my bmw specialist he has used tuning boxes with really good results. (mainly for turbo diesels eg x5 3.od engine) which can be plugged in and unplugged at will ( ie when you send the car back for service) and give performance and economy improvements - or are these inferior to the proper flash?
i gather from the above comments you would be sceptical?
Not at all - I had a piggyback on my Mazda with brilliant results. Handy to be able to remove at will... My comment was that you either need one of those OR a flash - there is usually very little that you can do to a modern ECU without one of them.
Not at all - I had a piggyback on my Mazda with brilliant results. Handy to be able to remove at will... My comment was that you either need one of those OR a flash - there is usually very little that you can do to a modern ECU without one of them.
thanks for the feedback - as a matter of interest was it a turbo? and in what respect did you get the improvements
Oh yes, it was feral with the extra power. With awd grip planting an estimated 230+ KW and 430NM torque 1st gear was breakneck stuff, but the real pickup was just in sheer tractability in-gear. It was well worth it.
Oh yes, it was feral with the extra power. With awd grip planting an estimated 230+ KW and 430NM torque 1st gear was breakneck stuff, but the real pickup was just in sheer tractability in-gear. It was well worth it.
how about economy with regular driving? or couldnt you resist planting the foot ?
how about economy with regular driving? or couldnt you resist planting the foot ?
Made no difference to economy actually. The 2.3T mazda engine is not particularly economical at the best of times, but I averaged 11 - 12 pretty consistently both before and after. I think maybe the leaned out tune maybe offset the foot-planting bit! LOL...
Oh yes, it was feral with the extra power. With awd grip planting an estimated 230+ KW and 430NM torque 1st gear was breakneck stuff, but the real pickup was just in sheer tractability in-gear. It was well worth it.
So are you going to do the same thing with R36? How would you compare the standard R36 with the MPS upgraded?
2007 Passat 3.2 4Motion Black Sedan | 19"s | AVC-9000 | Audi A3 Sportback 2.0TFSIQ
been there done that... the most you want with a modern turbo is 12s or 13s. Tuners go pale and very quickly get off the throttle doing dyno runs if they see 14s. 
My comment was that you either need one of those OR a flash - there is usually very little that you can do to a modern ECU without one of them.
? or couldnt you resist planting the foot
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