Dyno Tuning vs ecu remap / chip tuning

[mr puddinz]

i am again hopeful that someone out there knows enough about the topic at hand. i recently wrote a thread regarding ecu remapping and had a very limited response that unfortunately never helped in my initial enquiry.

Since my last thread, i made a couple of enquiries with several performance technicians / workshops and opinions vary greatly when it comes to increasing the performance of the standard B5 passat 1.8T engine.

some tech's believe that an ecu re-program / tuning is a safe and effective way of improving engine performance, others believe that it is a financial disaster waiting to happen. as explained to me, the theory (to the best of my interpretation) of making a car run richer via the ecu upgrade is bad for the engine full stop. it was suggested that instead of ecu remapping that the following be considered:

1. direct cold air intake filter.
2. upgrade the exhaust.
3. Dyno tune the vehicle.

I am happy to spend a little cash, but certainly want what's best for the engine. i am certainly not looking to make the car a monster on the road but a little extra kick would be nice.

any experiences or advise whether good or bad re the above would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance.

ed.

[AGO41T]

just chip it and get a full exhuast...

best mod's..

[AGO41T]

followed by 3" drop, 19-20" rims

[Autopia]

A proper remapping of the ECU, with appropriate consideration given to drivabiliy and longevity, will not result in financial disaster.
If someone just cranks everything up to maximum then it'll probably happen but there are respectable companies out there that provide a solid, reliable ECU tune that won't destroy your car.
A cold air intake and exhaust upgrade will help improve the sound of your car and may give you a slight increase in power but any real power improvement will require some fiddling with the ECU.
Your point 3, (Dyno tuning), will involve some ECU tuning by definition.

Another option would be to fit a better turbo unit but obviously this would be expensive. If you only want to spend "a little cash" then do the big 3.
CAI
Exhaust
ECU Tune.

Find someone you can trust and speak to some of his customers if you're still doubtful.
Maybe Dean at Volkspower can help.

[Tim]

Id suggest investigating what the chip tuning companies have to offer. Whoever told you about making the cars run rich obviously doesnt know a great deal.

More power generally comes from more air and more fuel at the right mixture. What you will find is that the tunes will up the boost. By all means afterwards run it on the dyno just to make sure the tune is safe. But I think everyone will tell you that its the best bang for buck mod you can do.

There are probably hundreds of tuned 1.8ts in Australia. So its not like your car would be a guinea pig so long as you stick to one of the reputable companies.

[Luminary]

Sometimes you have to think that a manufacturer surely wants to maximize sales and would do almost anything to get them. Who wouldn't buy a mrs powerful car right?

But then they have to balance the performance to the parts and price. All the time they are building to price. To flog those parts a bit harder is IMO not always wise.

If you want more power then I would consider just doing it the sensible way and buy a model with a bgger and more powerful engine. But that's me.

[mr puddinz]

firstly, thanks to all for the quick replies.

after reading the responses, can anyone please suggest a good and reputable workshop where i can have the car tuned. i live in sydney and would be happy to travel to most of the sydney wide area except for the north east surburbs.

i will check out volkspower and see what they say. thanks again.

ed.

[AGO41T]

Seb @ Euro Automotive Unit A6 @ 16a Amax ave Girraween

# 0410 541 322 i think.

[Lance B]

A correctly tuned motor should not run rich whether it be by a new tuning chip or the standard system. The facts are, the correct air to fuel mixture is 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel and this is what any exsiting fuel map or updated fuel map will achieve.

Many of the aftermarket tuning chips are done by more incremental fuel increases throughout the rev band compared to the existing fuel map and this can result in smoother running, possible better fuel economy and a slight increase in power/torque. There are other ways to tweak the tuning by a chipset as well, like timing and others.

The reason why there is only a small increase is because, generally, motors are tuned near to their power limit for the existing induction, exhaust, timing and other considerations. To get more benefits you will need to increase the air flow so as to make use of the 14.7:1 ratio, more air, more fuel, more power. This is why the real benefits will come from increased airflow with larger induction, larger exhausts and a chip to control it all are just the start.

[Swallowtail]

A correctly tuned motor should not run rich whether it be by a new tuning chip or the standard system. The facts are, the correct air to fuel mixture is 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel and this is what any exsiting fuel map or updated fuel map will achieve.

Many of the aftermarket tuning chips are done by more incremental fuel increases throughout the rev band compared to the existing fuel map and this can result in smoother running, possible better fuel economy and a slight increase in power/torque. There are other ways to tweak the tuning by a chipset as well, like timing and others.

The reason why there is only a small increase is because, generally, motors are tuned near to their power limit for the existing induction, exhaust, timing and other considerations. To get more benefits you will need to increase the air flow so as to make use of the 14.7:1 ratio, more air, more fuel, more power. This is why the real benefits will come from increased airflow with larger induction, larger exhausts and a chip to control it all are just the start.

14.7 in an ideal world yes. The reality is that most modern car manufacturers, particularly in a turbo engine, run on the side of too rich aas the extra fuel assists in engine cooling. My Mazda runs out of the factory at 10 - 11 to 1 AFR. A good tune brought that to 12 - 13 and gets a lot more power whilst still retaining a safety margin for cooling. Most tuners these days get very nervous if they see a turbo vehicle running 14s.

[Jarred]

14.7 is much to lean for a turbocharged engine! that'll cause you problems if you run a boosted engine that lean.

12-13:1 is a much better ratio for a turbocharged engine, naturally aspirated cars are better off running closer to 14.7:1, depending on aplication. [power needs etc].

lots of factory tunes for turbo charged engines run 'rich' as this is much more beneficial for the engine. helps with cooling & makes more power, as previously mentioned.

Have you ever seen a XR6T or mkV gti floor it, cause they sometimes give off a small puff of fuel smoke, and that's standard.

to the op. go for the big three, intake, exhaust and chip. for chip brands, stick to something reputable, and you should have not troubles! ie, giac, apr, etc .

[Swallowtail]

Have you ever seen a XR6T or mkV gti floor it, cause they sometimes give off a small puff of fuel smoke, and that's standard.

You should see mine when I floor it... " a small puff of fuel smoke" LOL... more like a huge cloud.

Stock my MPS was dyno'ed at 9.8:1... LOL. Chipped and tuned with CAI, I was running 12 - 13:1, and generating 20% more power atw .

[Rocket36]

I'm fairly certain the majority of cars run a bit rich from the factory... It's built in manufacturer engine protection.

I'll get my re-tune done some time in spring - not too hot, not too cold...

[goodfella]

I got mine flashed back in Mar and my fuel economy hasnt changed enough to care about it. BTW I am averaging 14-15l/100 per month so its not like I drive miss daisy!!

[Lance B]

14.7 in an ideal world yes. The reality is that most modern car manufacturers, particularly in a turbo engine, run on the side of too rich aas the extra fuel assists in engine cooling. My Mazda runs out of the factory at 10 - 11 to 1 AFR. A good tune brought that to 12 - 13 and gets a lot more power whilst still retaining a safety margin for cooling. Most tuners these days get very nervous if they see a turbo vehicle running 14s.

Fair call. My comments were directed at normally aspirated engines, not turbos or supercharged.