[HELP] Tiguan Drivetrain fluid changes

[Arctra]

Just looking for a little information and advice from those with experience and knowledge. I have had my Tiguan going on 7 years now and have been having it services by qualified mechanics up to now. I know that preventative maintenance is important and now that my vehicle is at 150,000km it needs more than just an engine oil change. I've had the transmission serviced by Umai Naa!! (and I'm not sure what else he did at the same time) a few years ago and was going to get him to do it again, but then something came up for the time we'd arranged and I had to postpone. In the interim I have been thinking that I might be able to do it myself - I'm a gumby, but I have a basic level of mechanical knowledge and aptitude after working on my dirt bikes and rebuilding one of its engines. So I had a look into it and I'm getting more and more convinced I can do it myself. But maybe the VWWatercooled collective have opinions that could sway me.

From what I can tell, there are 4 components to the drivetrain that need fluid changes for a vehicle around my ones age, but I'd like to confirm that:
1) Tiptronic transmission
2) Front bevel box (I presume that is effectively a front diff?)
3) Rear Final Drive (effectively the rear differential)
4) Haldex (effectively a clutch box at the rear?)
I have to admit to relying heavily on this post on VW Vortex, but maybe you guys can add something - VWVortex.com - 2012 Tiguan Drivetrain Service (F&R diff, haldex, 09M auto trans)

Here's what I've managed to find on each, along with clarification questions if anyone has answers.

1) Tiptronic transmission
The dealer reckons the gearbox is "sealed for life" and doesn't need servicing. What rubbish! Fluids degrade over time with use and it is silly to suggest they will never need refreshing unless you consider the "life" to be less than 10 years (which I do not). Interesting that the Elsa manual I have has a servicing procedure in it and there is not only a drain hole in the pan, but official VW tools available to do the service. On my Vito van I had to not only drain the fluid from the transmission but also from the torque converter which has a screw-in drain plug in it too. The Tig transmission doesn't appear to need separate torque converter draining, just from the transmission pan. The drain and refil procedure looks easy enough to do myself with just 1 specialty tool for refilling being the VAS6262-2 adapter that you screw into the pan drain hole to push fluid back into teh transmission. No need for a dipstick as the drain hole has a raised bit which will automatically drain off excess fluid and leave the right amount in there (if the fluid is at the right temp). I'm thinking I'll use the Fuchs Tital ATF 4400 transmission fluid and it'll take about 7L of that. Although there is a filter which can be changed if you remove the pan, from what I have read and can tell it is more of a screen than a filter and it is highly unlikely it will get blocked up. So if I cma going to do the service at home rather than risk exposing the transmission by removing the pan I think I'll leave the "never needs a service" filter in there and just change the fluid. When I did my Vito I also put a powerful magnet in the tray to catch fine metal particles the filter doesn't catch, and if I was to remove the pan on the Tig I'd do the same. But I just don't see the need for the moment.

Tell me how much of a fool I am for thinking that if you like - it might change my opinion.

When it comes to replenishing the fluid I'll get some clear hose from Bunnings to put in the adapter and then use gravity to push the fluid in (like the Elsa manual suggests). Should be easy enough.

2) Front bevel box
The Elsa manual has a procedure for "Checking and topping up gear oil in bevel box" but nothing on draining the fluid already in there. The post on Vortex says the drain hole is "pretty obvious" though. I guess I'll get under the vehicle and look to see what I can see and take some pics. Any suggestions for what I'm looking for (other than something that looks like a bolt :-P)?

And then recommendations on what fluid to use? It looks like it is a separate diff and not part of the gearbox, so I'll probably use Fuchs Titan Sintopoid FE SAE 75W-85. The Elsa manual doesn't seem to have much info in this regard, unless I'm not reading closely enough, but the Fuchs website says "Front Bevel Gear system, use TITAN SINTOPOID FE SAE 75W-85" which is the same as the rear diff.

As for tools to replenish the fluid, there is a "special adapter" available but it looks like I can just use a hand pump (like a Tom Thumb one from Supercheap) to do it.


3) Rear Final Drive (effectively the rear differential)
The Elsa manual refers to the "Final Drive" which I have to assume is the rear diff. It seems like a pretty straight forward remove top refill plug, remove drain plug, flush fresh fluid, replace drain plug, refill until fluid seeps out of refill hole and plug it up again job. Again, looks like a simple hand pump will do the job and I'll use use Fuchs TITAN SINTOPOID FE SAE 75W-85. The biggest thing to be careful with this appears to be making sure I don't confuse the drain and fill plugs of the Diff with those for the Haldex.

Comments?

4) Haldex
It seems my only option here is to buy the VW Haldex fluid. Process seems similar to the diff fluid change. There is some mention of a filter, but from what I can tell if there is one there is no need to replace it on a vehicle my ones age.

I realise I should probably get a mechanic like Umai Naa!! to do it, but I really am keen on giving it a try myself. So, a penny for your thoughts?

[Mysticality]

Going by research I did a few years ago, "Sealed for life" is basically expecting a vehicle life of 120,000km (or so) - and as such one would expect the fluid needing to be changed around then.

Can't remember where I saw that, but its stuck with me.

[Umai Naa!!]

I'll post up the diagrams and some how-tos tonight.

Not too difficult to do.

[Arctra]

I'll post up the diagrams and some how-tos tonight.

Not too difficult to do.

Don't shoot yourself in the foot mate - I already feel guilty that I want to do it on my own rather than pay you to do it

That being said, any help would be AWESOME!

I guess on the flip side, if I stuff it up you might have MORE business from me to fix it

[Arctra]

Front Differential/"bevel box"

I had a look under my Tiguan this morning thinking I would service the Front Differential (or as VW call it, the "Front bevel box"), but I ended up not doing it as I didn't have enough fluid, and accessing the fill hole looked like more of a challenge than I was up for today. Correct me if I am wrong, but the fill hole is up behind the cover and is not readily accessable?


And is it just me or does it look a little too oily and messy down there? I know last time the transmisison and things were serviced the bevel box seals were replaced, so I'm not sure if they need replacing again or if it is something else.

[Arctra]

Rear Differential/Final Drive

Rear Differential/Final Drive

After deciding against servicing the front diff I had a go at the rear diff instead. I found this to be pretty easy - probably the easiest of the entire drivetrain to do.

I removed the fill plug first as advised to make sure that you can actually put new fluid in before you drain the old stuff. Even though my vehicle was level, a very small amount of fluid leaked out of the fill hole when I removed the plug, so it might have been slightly over-filled before. I took note of that so I am not too concerned about putting the fill plug back in quickly after filling so that I have a little more fluid in there.

After removing the drain plug the fluid drained fairly quickly and didn't look too used (I compare that to when I did the diff on my Vito van and the fluid was black and smelled burnt).


When all the fluid was drained however, it was clear to see that it was dirty and probably ready for a refresh.


I decided to flush a little fresh fluid through before putting the plug back in and filling the diff. Nothing really came out so it probably wasn't necessary, but I felt better doing it anyway. At least this photo show the fill and drain holes clearly for anyone in future (the fill hole is the top one with my filling tool in it)


With the flush and then filling it again, I used just under 1 liter of fluid - if that helps anyone in future.

[Arctra]

Haldex

Haldex

After doing the diff I had a go at the Haldex. Again, this seemed pretty easy. Similar to what I had with the diff, I undid the fill plug first and a little bit of fluid came out.


After that I located the drain bolt and out the fluid came


Once again I notice the fluid was discoloured and ready to be replace.


I inserted the hose of my hand pump to push the fresh fluid in (which is surprisingly clear!). When the fluid started coming out the fill hole, I gave it a couple of quick squirts then put the plug bolt back in as quickly as I could to minimise fluid loss.


Put the plug bolt back in, cleaned the area up with some degreaser so that I will be able to clearly see if there is any leaking in a day or so, and job done!

[Umai Naa!!]

Looks like the bevel box is leaking again. Unfortunately, quite a common occurrance. I'm not sure if there may a bit too much slop in the splines on the driveshaft and output shaft, that causes premature wear of the seal, or that it's just a crap seal.

They ran a revised bevel box and seal (4 times the price, too!) in the later ones. They used a bolt-in output flange, and bolt-on driveshaft like every other VW that rarely leaks.

[Arctra]

Tiptronic Transmission/Gearbox

Onto the grand-daddy of the drivetrain, the tiptronic transmission! I had already decided that because I have had the transmission serviced once before with a new filter (which is nothing but a screen rather than being a "real" filter) that I was not going to drop the pan. I just wanted to replace the fluid, nothing more.

As a matter of interest, after getting the vehicle elevated and level I thought I would check what the temperature was. I have a VCDS cable and when I went to the transmission measuring blocks I found 2 different ones that give the ATF temperature (Group 006 and Group 010) but they both seemed to give the exact same reading. In my case 37C which was on the high side for the recommended when setting the level. When I tested the temp on the transmission pan with my IR thermometer it gave a few degrees lower temp, so I'm not sure why that is. Anyway, I figured it was close enough so I went ahead with the service.


Now, like others here, even with the vehicle level and the temp pretty close to the right temp, when I removed the drain plug fluid came out, indicating the transmission was over-full. And it wasn't just a dribble either


As you can see there was a fair bit in the container I drained too. After the initial surprise at the fluid drain, my next thought was that the fluid looked dirty enough to justify the change.


When I measured the "overflow" fluid that technically should not have been there it was a reasonable amount - just under a litre by my measurements


Once that draining finished I removed the plastic level setting insert and cleaned it whilst the draining happened.


The draining didn't take long, which surprised me given the Fuchs website told me "Service Refill Capacity: 7.0 Liters", and others here said it took them 5.5 quarts (which is about 5.2 liters).


Out of interest I measured all the fluid that had drained out and it totaled around 2.8L. So the difference in the amount of fluid drained and what others say goes in (including the Fuchs website that was accurate with my Vito van gearbox fluid change) has me concerned. I decided the safest course of action was to just put in as much fresh fluid as what came out, given that the fluid certainly wasn't low because some came out the overflow when I first took the drain plug out. Consulting my ELSA manual, in the "Draining and filling ATF" instructions they say to add only 3L after draining, which is a lot closer to what came out of mine. This has me confused and concerned.

Anyway, I screwed the plastic bit back in the pan, being careful not to over tighten it by hand, then attached my VAS6262-2 filling attachment I bought off eBay.


Now, I was going to use a funnel and a long hose to get gravity to push the new fluid into the transmission, pretty much like the ELSA manual tells you to do it, but when I was at my local hardware store getting the 8mm clear hose to attach to the filling attachment I noticed they had 5L pressure garden sprayers for a very cheap $9 on sale. I took a good look at it and figured it would actually be very easy to use to pressure feed the fluid and I'd be able to keep a closer eye on how it was going. It's pretty simple in that it has a scavenger hose that goes to the bottom of the bottle, then you screw on the air-pump lid and pump it to pressurize the bottle. Because the fluid wouldn't run through an mechanical pump assembly, it would just be force up the scavenger pipe, I though it would work great.


The only "modification" I had to do to it was remove the spray nozzle and push one end of my clear 8mm tube onto the metal shaft and the other end onto my VAS6262-2 attachment. And because the sprayer has an on/off trigger it meant I had an easy flow controller to use. BONUS!


So I pumped the bottle up a but after putting everything together and pushed the fresh fluid into the pan


Because I had anticipated using 7L I put way too much fluid in the pump bottle. So I marked off a line that was about 3L and only pushed in fluid until I reached that mark. The problem is, I actually have no idea whether I have too much fluid in there now or not. When I stopped pushing fluid in and removed the attachment, excess fluid did start coming out of the hole - but I put in the drain plug quickly so there wasn't much loss. I started the vehicle, put my foot on the brake and put it in R for about 10 seconds, then N for 10 seconds, then D for 10 seconds - and I did that about 5 times to make sure the fluid was well circulated. When I checked the temperature is was in the mid 40's Celsius which is too high for setting the fluid level. Unfortunately it is a hot day in Sydney today and so even after a couple of hours the temp is still too high. But I don't know whether to do the oil level setting given there was excess fluid in there to begin with according to the ELSE manual method of checking fluid level.

[Umai Naa!!]

4-5L for a service, including dropping the pan and changing the filter.

Raise the rear of the car, so that it's level, start the car and run until at desired temperature, then pull the inspection plug and let the excess drain out.

7L is when you've fitted a brand new torque converter and transmission. You'll never get all the old oil out at a service.

Also, look for metallic 'silt' in the old oil.

[Arctra]

4-5L for a service, including dropping the pan and changing the filter.

Raise the rear of the car, so that it's level, start the car and run until at desired temperature, then pull the inspection plug and let the excess drain out.

7L is when you've fitted a brand new torque converter and transmission. You'll never get all the old oil out at a service.

Also, look for metallic 'silt' in the old oil.

Thanks. So does 3L sound about right given I didn't drop the pan and change the filter then?

[Umai Naa!!]

Yeah, I'd say around 3-4L.

A lot stays in the pan even after you've removed the level tube.

[Arctra]

Looks like the mistake I made was not having the engine running when I checked the ATF level... RTFM!!!

Just found this video which might help others:
How To Check and Fill VW Tiguan Transmission Fluid aka VW Tiguan ATF Level Aisin 6 Speed 09M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxlDyNnDQAc

[Arctra]

And if you're going to remove the pan and change the filter, this is probably the video to use:
How To Change VW CC, Passat, Tiguan Transmission Fluid & Filter Aisin 09M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TPMOahVRmY

[Arctra]

Looks like the mistake I made was not having the engine running when I checked the ATF level... RTFM!!!

Well, I got home from work this evening, got the vehicle on the level and with the engine running I took the drain plug out expecting excess fluid to come out... but there was nothing

I put just over a liter of fluid in (with the engine still running) before there was any dribble back from the drain hole. So I am VERY glad I checked it again (properly this time)!

One observation - the fluid that came out was quite dirty again (albeit less dirty and more red than the first drain). So even when the fluid is drained from the pan there must still be a lot of old fluid left in the torque converter and other parts of the box. Given Fuchs recommend 7L I suspect around as much fluid as was drained out remains in the box.

Seeing as I have another 4L bottle of fluid sitting in the garage (that I can't return because I've already broken the seal) and I have no use for it, I think I might drop the fluid again and put the rest of the fresh stuff in so a vast majority of it is fresh and I get as much of the dirty stuff out as possible (without removing the torque converter).