Tiguan Performance Tuning

[Tiggy1]

Tiggy1 as there are a number of us in the same boat with a 2011 Tig wanting to get remapped, can you let us know what is involved in doing a bench tune. I am gathering ECU has to come out but not sure what this involves. I had been told by my local APR dealer (after they couldn't connect) that they may need to send it off to APR in Qld. I'm not that keen to have my ECU out of my car let alone shipped interstate and back.

Hi. When I enquired through APR, they asked me to get number off ECU and sent this link as to how to get at it.
APR - High Performance Development for Audi, VW and Porsche Vehicles.
I don't know if they have to physically remove it, or whether they can plug their ECMS controller into it in situ. Am trying to confirm this myself. Will certainly keep you updated

[Tim]

Generally the ECU will need to be removed from the car and actually cracked open

[Drift]

I don't know if they have to physically remove it, or whether they can plug their ECMS controller into it in situ. Am trying to confirm this myself.

My local APR dealer advises the ECU indeed has to be removed from the vehicle. I'm personally torn. I'm not keen on this happening nor am I keen on the ECU being cracked open but I'm keen as mustard on having the tune done.

[tigger73]

Hi. When I enquired through APR, they asked me to get number off ECU and sent this link as to how to get at it.
APR - High Performance Development for Audi, VW and Porsche Vehicles.
I don't know if they have to physically remove it, or whether they can plug their ECMS controller into it in situ. Am trying to confirm this myself. Will certainly keep you updated

All that just to get at a number??? Surely they can connect up to it and get the number out?

[Tiggy1]

Generally the ECU will need to be removed from the car and actually cracked open

Found this on APR site which suggested to me that they tack EMCS onto original ECU, but I guess they'd have to "crack it open" first to do so (as you say)?!
"APR's ECU Upgrades are installed by APR's aurhorised dealer network. Most late model applications are available to be installed via DirectPort programming without removing your ECU or even opening the hood. DirectPort Programming is not available for all models and in these rare cases EMCS Modules are able to be soldered to the ECU."
Still not an attractive proposition - hope someone "cracks" the direct-port security soon

---------- Post added at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 PM ----------

All that just to get at a number??? Surely they can connect up to it and get the number out?

Apparently not - they can get the software version (ours are MED17.5 I believe), but still asked for ECU part number. I looked up my spec on ETKA parts catalogue and believe it is 06J906026FH. This is for Chassis/Model Code CCZA with 147TSI, 7spd Auto and EU5 emissions standard. Codes all marry up with specs I got for my VIN off erWIN.
Fail - life wasn't meant to be easy! Apparently have to get specific numbers off actual ECU (more after basic part number) and software version on there also. Will have a go this weekend, as not exposing innards of ECU, or having to unplug - "just" a matter of taking wipers, and covers off. Will let you know if it's as easy as they reckon

[aussietig]

Hmmf. Would have been nice if they'd told me that up-front I had suspected that mine was unable to be direct-port tuned (even told them that) however they assured me that they thought the Superchips tune via BlueFin device should work. Got it yesterday and after multiple attempts with "error reading PCM" message, am still awaiting response from their UK H.O as to whether it's not doable. It appears their server is not letting me connect to even try and download what info the unit got from my Tig, which raises the frustration level even more! Looks like I will be taking them up on their "money-back" guarantee and trying to find someone I am confident enough in to let do bench tune (not keen on just anyone digging around to get at ECU, having gotten the info from APR as to what's involved in even getting at it!) Very reluctant to expose it to outside, as given humidity and inevitable corrosive hand juices that will end up on it, I suspect could cause dramas down the track. Anyone know of a workshop with enclosed, dust-proof, de-humidified workshop and technicians that use white cotton gloves? Bit overboard I know, but electronics are a nightmare when they start going wrong

Yes ... I was very skeptical when you said they've told you it's do-able.

Anyhow welcome to the "left high and dry" club.


Quite frankly, I just don't think it's worth the trouble and risk pulling out the ECU.

Like I said before ... definitely not something I'd consider from SuperChips (given what they're meant to be selling to people).

But maybe it's worth another re-assessment once the warranty expires.

[Tiggy1]

Yes ... I was very skeptical when you said they've told you it's do-able.

Anyhow welcome to the "left high and dry" club.


Quite frankly, I just don't think it's worth the trouble and risk pulling out the ECU.

Like I said before ... definitely not something I'd consider from SuperChips (given what they're meant to be selling to people).

But maybe it's worth another re-assessment once the warranty expires.

Yers, fun police are everywhere nowadays! Oh well, if enough people keep pestering them, someone will come up with a solution. Just hope it doesn't take too long
Cheers

[aussietig]

Still not an attractive proposition - hope someone "cracks" the direct-port security soon

Well it's almost been 7 months since I first guinea pigged the bluefin and your results today basically confirm that no progress has been made at all.

But they definitely didn't bother to tell their sales people.


All I can say is ... they need to throw more ex-NASA employees or hackers onto cracking my VAG.

None of this fcuken vajazzle business!

[Captain Bungers]

Generally the ECU will need to be removed from the car and actually cracked open

This is what they did for me. It is pretty much the same as opening your home pc - not a big drama at all.

[Guy_H]

The issue is that all the newer cars run a 1024 bit encrytption,

"Look up RSA 1024 bit encryption and you'll see brute force attacks on those ECU's would take the worlds fastest supercomputer hundreds of years to crack once. It needs to be recracked or recalculated every time a bit changes, ie, you make any calibration change."

Any tuner should know this, its been in place for quite some time - you can see why the ECU needs to come out.

APR Dealers collectively around the country can do a couple of dozen a week (bench flashes) with no danger, no harm, no consequences to an ECU, its a daily task.

Certainly any dealer that is not 100% confident, then we can get the ECU shipped to Brisbane. We do this on some of the very newest diesels as we want the responsibility in house up here as its a tough ECU to work on.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

[tigger73]

The issue is that all the newer cars run a 1024 bit encrytption,

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Hi Guy,

Well since you asked....

What is the difference in performance between the 95RON and 98RON APR tunes?

Do you have the power/torque curves that include bottom end for 125/147TSI Tig - say 1500-2500 RPM (as website only has 2500-6500)?

Any comments on APR tune with a DSG box and whether this is going to improve the performance pulling out into traffic? Main complaint with the stock Tig (125TSI DSG) is that there's a lag after turning in and putting the boot in to getting up and going. Is APR stage 1 going to fix this? Or is this a DSG-lag/turbo-lag issue that's not going to get resolved so easily?

For those of us with newer vehicles with the 1024 bit encryption is there any way to easily get a trial (other than driving someone elses car)? Understand that there's quite a bit more work involved to put it in. How do you generally work this? Also if you do put a trial in will you have to pull the ECU out again if someone wants to go ahead with the "full" version?

How do insurance companies view APR tunes? What about VW manufacturer warranty? What are the risks/downsides/potential losses if you get a tune (APR or other) done to your car?

I know some of these questions may have been addressed in this thread already by others but I'd be interested in your thoughts/response.

[Tiggy1]

Hi Guy,

Well since you asked....

What is the difference in performance between the 95RON and 98RON APR tunes?

Do you have the power/torque curves that include bottom end for 125/147TSI Tig - say 1500-2500 RPM (as website only has 2500-6500)?

Any comments on APR tune with a DSG box and whether this is going to improve the performance pulling out into traffic? Main complaint with the stock Tig (125TSI DSG) is that there's a lag after turning in and putting the boot in to getting up and going. Is APR stage 1 going to fix this? Or is this a DSG-lag/turbo-lag issue that's not going to get resolved so easily?

For those of us with newer vehicles with the 1024 bit encryption is there any way to easily get a trial (other than driving someone elses car)? Understand that there's quite a bit more work involved to put it in. How do you generally work this? Also if you do put a trial in will you have to pull the ECU out again if someone wants to go ahead with the "full" version?

How do insurance companies view APR tunes? What about VW manufacturer warranty? What are the risks/downsides/potential losses if you get a tune (APR or other) done to your car?

I know some of these questions may have been addressed in this thread already by others but I'd be interested in your thoughts/response.

Excellent summary of all my concerns (and many others too I suspect) - waiting with bated breath for reply
My only other question is whether APR has considered (or whether even feasible) to supply re-flashed ECU for the non-directport tunable vehicles on an exchange basis. This, I believe, solve two issues - one being that the ECU can be programmed and tested at APR to ensure consistency of quality, and two, would cut down the time factor of having to send ECU away if required. The dealer could basically just do direct changeover. This is my biggest concern, given that I am about 5hrs drive from nearest dealer!
Cheers

---------- Post added at 06:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 AM ----------

Yes ... I was very skeptical when you said they've told you it's do-able.

Anyhow welcome to the "left high and dry" club.


Quite frankly, I just don't think it's worth the trouble and risk pulling out the ECU.

Like I said before ... definitely not something I'd consider from SuperChips (given what they're meant to be selling to people).

But maybe it's worth another re-assessment once the warranty expires.

Got confirmation back that mine is also one of the non-direct port tunable ones ("rare"-ha). In Superchips defence, Peter (Oceania Director), has been very quick & forthright with answers to my questions/concerns. Has even offered to come to me to do benchtune (been doing them since 1993 apparently, so seems to know his stuff). Still considering.....
P.S: kudos also to Jimmy at Alba European (Qld Superchips' dealer where I got the BlueFin) for his help in the initial "trying to get the darn thing to work" stage, and for honouring their moneyback guarantee. He has done many bench tunes, he says, so another option for you folk in Bris-vegas

[h100vw]

If you ring VW and ask how much an ECU costs, that would go a long way towards explaining why ECUs are not done on exchange. Then there's the large number of different ones in the cars themselves. Lastly you can't just plug another ECU in without coding it to the car. Which isn't a 5 minute job either.

Gavin

[Tiggy1]

If you ring VW and ask how much an ECU costs, that would go a long way towards explaining why ECUs are not done on exchange. Then there's the large number of different ones in the cars themselves. Lastly you can't just plug another ECU in without coding it to the car. Which isn't a 5 minute job either.

Gavin

Hi Gavin, point taken - always challenges, only suggesting a path for tuning companies to try and get around the problem (and would create a whole new market of potential customers I'm sure - me for one )
P.S: work for a business that sells truck parts where exchange items (including electronic components) is common and accepted practice, avoiding downtime being such a high priority!

[h100vw]

Its a frustration I know. The ECUs are not that universal. Without committing to tuning just one ECU type it would be massively expensive.

It would be possible for a 9n Polo GTI to have an ECU that had had the immobiliser defeated. That could be swapped in while the original ECU was tuned but it wouldn't get used that much really.

Gavin