Tuning / performance update

[DieselTig]

Spoke to HP and this can be done here in Melbourne and the result is 125kw and 370nm. I have though seen around quotes for increase in power and torque to about 30% and this is nowhere near it. I would expect around 400 newtons and at least 130kw.
I will continue researching, I am pretty new to turbo diesels and have a lot to learn.

[Arctra]

Hey DieselTig, in your investigations would you mind asking whether the TDI auto box is the same as the 147's auto box? If they are different, then you may want to investigate whether the box can handle it. I recall reading somewhere that the TDI engine was specifically de-tuned a bit to prevent the auto box from overheating.

I'm not trying to scare monger here. I am interested in getting the tune done too, but not at the expense of my transmission. It's nice that Oettinger offer a warranty on the drivetrain, but as with all warranties it is for a finite period after which the box longevity is unknown. This is a concern for me as I intend keeping my Tig for quite a while. Maybe one of the tuners can weigh in on this topic?

[NZTiguan]

Hey DieselTig, in your investigations would you mind asking whether the TDI auto box is the same as the 147's auto box? If they are different, then you may want to investigate whether the box can handle it. I recall reading somewhere that the TDI engine was specifically de-tuned a bit to prevent the auto box from overheating.

I'm not trying to scare monger here. I am interested in getting the tune done too, but not at the expense of my transmission. It's nice that Oettinger offer a warranty on the drivetrain, but as with all warranties it is for a finite period after which the box longevity is unknown. This is a concern for me as I intend keeping my Tig for quite a while. Maybe one of the tuners can weigh in on this topic?

Remember that in Europe they're already putting 125kw 350nm through the tiptronic box in the 125kw diesel. I understand there's been an issue about the "manual transmission" coping with the torque but NOT the auto. One of the GB guys had his diesel manual Tig replaced with an auto cos he did a lot of towing and it wasn't handling it too well. This was in the early days of Tig though !!

Cheers

[DieselTig]

Now that you have mentioned whether the auto can handle extra newtons, I will investigate this. On the subject of warranty you are right, it has nothing to do with the longivity of the drivetrain. I know for a fact that Xtrail auto is detuned because the auto cannot handle the extra torque and power, so I will look into this and keep you posted.

[DieselTig]

I have been doing a bit of research on net sure enough the 125kw diesel in europe is only offered in manual box. Obviously the extra torque maybe too much for the tiptronic. For ARCTRA's question about the 147 box, I have made some inquiries and yes it is the same as the diesel. But the 147 produces only 280 newtons in comparison to the 320 the diesel produces. So the petrol has more power but at less torque than the diesel.
I am now starting to have second thoughts about the retuning, it maybe beyond the tiptronic's capabilities. I guess I would do this if I get the ok from someone within VW confirming the max torque design specifications of this box. Reseach continues..........

[Pullstarter]

Ask Guy about your tranny concerns, he usually knows all regarding that kind of thing

[DieselTig]

I will do that next Monday. Thanks for the advice.

[Arctra]

I have been doing a bit of research on net sure enough the 125kw diesel in europe is only offered in manual box. Obviously the extra torque maybe too much for the tiptronic. For ARCTRA's question about the 147 box, I have made some inquiries and yes it is the same as the diesel. But the 147 produces only 280 newtons in comparison to the 320 the diesel produces. So the petrol has more power but at less torque than the diesel.
I am now starting to have second thoughts about the retuning, it maybe beyond the tiptronic's capabilities. I guess I would do this if I get the ok from someone within VW confirming the max torque design specifications of this box. Reseach continues..........

Sorry if I burst your bubble mate. But if you're anything like me, you'd rather look after your Tig and keep on keeping on

The way I'm looking at it, is at least let my Tig get out of its manufacturer warranty, by which time the early adopters will have a better idea of how well the box can handle it. If the box handles it fine, then I'll go ahead and get it done to bring the performance in line with what the flavour of the day is. If it's not handling the tuning so well, then at least I'll have no regrets.

[DieselTig]

I agree with you on this, until there is real evidence of the changes not affecting the reliability of the transmission then I will be happy to experiement, but not on a car new straight out of the box.
Besides, once you have done the change you will get used to improvement and you are back to same situtation, asking yourself can I get more improvements. What I am saying is how much is enough, and being humans as we are, cannot be satisfied with anything.
So, I look at it this way, if the car is delivering what it was designed for, then anymore is a bonus.

So, I will still be on this forum and putting forward my point of view on different aspects of the vehicle. I guess after driving real offroaders for years (hilux crew cab) this is more of a step back 4wd ability but again each vehicle has its uses.

[Sharkie]

Spoke to HP and this can be done here in Melbourne and the result is 125kw and 370nm. I have though seen around quotes for increase in power and torque to about 30% and this is nowhere near it. I would expect around 400 newtons and at least 130kw.
I will continue researching, I am pretty new to turbo diesels and have a lot to learn.

I've yet to see anybody reliably offer more than 125kw/370NM from the 103kw TDI. If you have anymore info on who does this, post it up so we can have a look.

[DieselTig]

I have been doing a fair bit of research lately and found out that 125kw/370NM is pretty much the extend you can go without doing mechanical changes to the engine. But there were two places where they said that they can get 130kw/410nm reliably. These places were www.audeespares.com.au and www.turboengineering.com.au both in Melbourne. The turbo engineering place they also have 4wd dynamometer and can actually confirm the output. They (Turbo Engineering) also commented that getting extra power is not difficult but the engine cannot sustain it under continuous load and the exhaust temperatures will go beyond the ~600C allowable limit. There were other technical terms they threw at me but I am not a Mechanical Engineer (Electrical Engineering backround) and was not easy to understand. Hope this sheds some light on remapping the diesels.

[Arctra]

Thanks for that. Was there any mention of the gearbox though?

As I've said before, that's my concern. If there was a way of monitoring the gearbox temp and fluid pressures then I might be tempted to do the chipping earlier, and rely on my monitoring of the temps/pressures to prevent damage to the box, then I might be tempted to chip sooner rather than later.

So does this mean you are a step closer to taking the plunge?

[DieselTig]

These guys including Guy said that the Tiptronic has no issues with extra torque.
I need to get delivery of my Tig and then I will take the plunge myself. I like the 400Nm, my sister has a BMW X5 diesel twin turbo and that punches around 500Nm+ and it is awsome to have you pinned to the seat during acceleration. Having flat torque curve you also get this pulling power nearly all the time. Cant wait.

[Sharkie]

I need to get delivery of my Tig and then I will take the plunge myself. I like the 400Nm, my sister has a BMW X5 diesel twin turbo and that punches around 500Nm+ and it is awsome to have you pinned to the seat during acceleration. Having flat torque curve you also get this pulling power nearly all the time. Cant wait.

Unfortunately if you wanted pinned to the seat acceleration you should have ordered a Tiguan (any 1 would do) with the 2.0TSI motor. With tuning you would have had more than 400Nm and a 4500rmin wide powerband instead of the 2000rmin of the diesel.

The diesel Tig serves a different purpose as it should.

I'm also wary of custom tuning houses such as those mentioned as I have gone down that route before and would not recommend it. There is no way a small workshop can throw the same resources at a tuning solution as the big players in the market. APR/Oettinger/Revo etc do hundreds of hours of work & research on a single upgrade to ensure reliability and performance.

[DieselTig]

I prefer the diesel for economy and like the torque down low which is good when the car is loaded and up the hills. I am not a fun of pertrol turbo's and not into speeding either. I find the turbo diesel smoother and besides, my wife will be doing most of the driving, I will still be driving around in the Xtrail.
I have done lots of test drives of the 147TSI and the TDi and my preference was clearly diesel.